Coex friend said $crewed by Jetblue rates

[Ponchus pilot]

With 85 hours the pay comes out to be $77/hr for 1st year and $96/hr for 12 year capt.

 

[Flash 7]

With all the latest agreements for same pay for 50-99 seats. Expjet should use Jblue rates and then add 5 years for a 18 year scale, which is also the standard in most regional contracts.


Hold your line guys!!!!!

 

[bayoubandit]

I think we can all thank SKYW for the low pay rates at JBLU. On Paper SKYW will fly a 190 for the same price they will fly a 50 seat RJ. I think a 5 year CA on a 99 seat jet at SKYW would get paid like $64/hr!!! JBLU had no choice because SKYW lowered the benchmark when they put those pay rates on paper. When SKYW rolls an A-320 on property, a 5th year CA will get about $98/hr. It looks like the two premeir non-union carriers are doing a great job of helping us all out. Hopefully the 190 pay at JBLU will come up like it did with the 320's. However, I don't see the SKYW pay moving much because most guys there think that those rates are a good deal "in this environment". They don't really understand the cost plus sham do they.

I've been waiting for someone to say this. I thought the same thing. Secretly, the rumor was that they accept those pay rates because Mr CEO was trying to ilk a deal with his JB buddy to do smaller aircraft flying for JB. Neeleman was wise and decided that he wanted to keep it in house. SKW just layed the pavement for JB to follow with the payrates. The closely mirror what SKW had agreed to. Hmm....

 

[reno]

I think we can all thank SKYW for the low pay rates at JBLU. On Paper SKYW will fly a 190 for the same price they will fly a 50 seat RJ. I think a 5 year CA on a 99 seat jet at SKYW would get paid like $64/hr!!! JBLU had no choice because SKYW lowered the benchmark when they put those pay rates on paper. When SKYW rolls an A-320 on property, a 5th year CA will get about $98/hr. It looks like the two premeir non-union carriers are doing a great job of helping us all out. Hopefully the 190 pay at JBLU will come up like it did with the 320's. However, I don't see the SKYW pay moving much because most guys there think that those rates are a good deal "in this environment". They don't really understand the cost plus sham do they.

Once again I say remember that the SkyWest pay rate was for 18 months only and for aircraft that were not on property yet. That 18 month contract expires this year. We could have agreed to fly 777's for $20.00 and it would have had the same impact. When the new contract is inked I'd agree with the "Bringing down the house" mentality, but until then - 18 month rates on aircraft that don't exist do not move the bar.

 

[surplus1]

BENCHMARK - that's the term everyone needs to consider at this point.

The new E190 rates at JetBlue will be the benchmark against which ALL regional pilots wage rates will be compared. The concern is that you won't find rates that will exceed the E190 rates because they won't be viewed as "competitive." Essentially, Jet Blue has now put a CAP on your future earning potential - get it? Regional pilot wages will be measured against the new LCC wage rates.

You can thank Jet Blue for limiting any regional wage growth in the future - that includes both 50 and 70 seaters. Your managements will say, "Why should we pay you $x to fly a 50 seater if that exceeds what Jet Blue pays its 100-seater pilots?" Don't expect 50-seat RJ pay to remain at high levels given the new "playing field." Seriously, this is bad news for all pilots - both mainline and regional pilots because this new BENCHMARK sets the salary bar even lower for everyone. And what can the Jet Blue pilots do to disagree with or act against it? Nada. Thanks Jet Blue for lowering the salary bar for everyone!

I don't disagree with your basic concept but your focus on the impact of this JBlue decision is by no means limited to regional carriers.

The new "benchmark" will affect the majors as much or maybe more. NW pilots are trying to get their company to place 70-seat RJ's at the mainline. They will now have to do better than JBlue. Delta pilots are hoping for a new 100-seat airplane. They will now have to compete with JBlue. All of the "mainline" aircraft at or near the 100-seat range, e.g., the small 737s and the DC-9s, will now have to compete with JBlue compensation.

Regionals like Horizon, Comair, ASA, ARW, CHQ, MSA, all operating 70-seat RJs will have to compete with USAirways, which now flys or will fly the EMB-170/175 with 76 seats for $58 and both their 70-seat and 50-seat rates (as you point out) will come under intense pressure.

In short, we are all going to wind up, major and minor, paying the piper for this decision by JBlue management.

Granted these rates will eventually increase, but trying to inflate them with "overtime" as I've seen in some threads, just doesn't cut it. Even when they do increase, they will still be scraping the bottom of everyone's barrel.

At Comair, which is not the highest 70-seat rate, is now in real trouble. Given there is no longevity to speak of a JBlue, our 70-seat rate has been undercut by anywhere from $16 to $41 per hour. The USAirways 70-seat rate, also with no longevity, undercuts our 70-seat rate (based on the seniority of our captains) by at least $30 hr and as much as $55 hr.

USAirways ALPA unit and JBlue's management have both fired a shot that will be heard throughout the industry. I can't blame the JBlue pilots who have no voice, but I do blame the U pilots and ALPA. Giving up their longevity to undercut other ALPA carriers by such a wide margin is inexcuseable. There is also little doubt that the AAA low-ball rate for the EMB-170 was a major influence on the JBlue decision.

If this doesn't generate a union movement at JBlue then they deserve whatever they are given. Given that JBlue started out in the A320 for $78 bucks and hour, I guess we should not be surprised. Its unfortunate that the rest of us will have to suffer as well.

We live in interesting times.

 

[Truckdriver]

Once again I say remember that the SkyWest pay rate was for 18 months only and for aircraft that were not on property yet. That 18 month contract expires this year. We could have agreed to fly 777's for $20.00 and it would have had the same impact. When the new contract is inked I'd agree with the "Bringing down the house" mentality, but until then - 18 month rates on aircraft that don't exist do not move the bar.

Reno,

If you think that agreed upon rates do not move the bar, you don't really understand stuff here. It doesn't matter how long the agreement is or when the aircraft are coming, it lowers the bar. When SKYW put those rates on paper the bar was lowered the next day. I can guarantee you that Jerry A and David N were on the phone within a day after that deal was done. SKYW lowered the bar SIGNIFICANTLY when they fell hook, line, and sinker for that deal. And people say that MESA is hurting this industry. SKYW put the race to the bottom in a nosedive and JBLU just put it into a flat spin.

 

[embdrvr]

Truckdriver,

What was your excuse for a pathetic contract before SkyWest and Jet Blue lowered the proverbial bar? Maybe the fact that you were PFT? Quit blaming everyone else for your shortcomings. It's not very becoming of someone who claims to be a pilot.

And quit with the conspiracy theories already. Neeleman and Atkin may know each other but I can guarantee you they look out for their own best interests. I'm sure Jerry would have liked a shot at feeding Jet Blue. Now with the sub-industry pay rates @ Jblu there will never be any motivation for Jet Blue to contract out their small jet flying. JetBlue pilots are willing to work for less than their counterparts at the so called regional airlines.

 

[jumppilot]

delete.

 

[jumppilot]

Someone needs to answer a question for me....

Why should a captain of a 777 make $200/hr? That is $180,000/yr.

Is it because that is the way it has always been, or did someone take a look at profit margin and figure out a pilots worth? Don't give me BS about human worth or responsibility. I need logic that acountants and planners use. Besides, I have a few friends who are nurses and they make $42,000 and administer drugs that could kill people at the improper dose.

I make $26000/yr as a regional FO...with $180,000/yr I could live like a king.

Just curious

 

[nonstop]

Someone needs to answer a question for me....

Why should a captain of a 777 make $200/hr? That is $180,000/yr.

Is it because that is the way it has always been, or did someone take a look at profit margin and figure out a pilots worth? Don't give me BS about human worth or responsibility. I need logic that acountants and planners use. Besides, I have a few friends who are nurses and they make $42,000 and administer drugs that could kill people at the improper dose.

I make $26000/yr as a regional FO...with $180,000/yr I could live like a king.

Just curious

Well obviously, judging by your post, it's not due to a wealth of intelligence. Let's say you top out at $180k a year... at age 60. Factor in your wasted youth, college debt, regional years, lost earings, componded interest... after it's all said and done you're not much farther ahead than the toothless asshole who decided to pour concrete for a living and start out at $50k a year while you're paying for your education. In the mean time you're battling the feds, your health and your company... you're lucky to even make it to 60. You're gambling and the odds of you coming out ahead are not that much greater than you taking your 100k investment to Vegas and putting it on Black, or Red... or whatever your taste is for the day. Yes, airline pilots are overpaid if you happen to focus on the 1% of the lucky fu<ks who happen to pick the right course. The other 99% are underpaid.

 

[nonstop]

BTW- if you think 180k a year is a "kings salary" you truely are a fu<king idiot. I hope you don't ever have children for you will truely be slapped with reality when you attempt to pay their tuition.

 

[jumppilot]

Sorry, I overstepped my bounds...I did not mean to get in the way of a bitch session by interjecting an honest question.

Sorry, it will not happen again.

Best regards,
-fu<king idiot

EDIT: Sorry, I re-read your post. You're right, I guess. My parents, a nurse and cop, made a combined total of $100,000 and I was able to go to a great school, get my ratings and get a good job....I guess making $180,000/yr just...isnt'....enough. So how about you re-read my post, put the beer down, and do a little bit of thinking before you call me a (what was it? oh thats right) fu<king idiot. I asked an honest question...so give me an honest answer.

BTW- if you think 180k a year is a "kings salary" you truely are a fu<king idiot. I hope you don't ever have children for you will truely be slapped with reality when you attempt to pay their tuition.

 

[nonstop]

Sorry, I overstepped my bounds...I did not mean to get in the way of a bitch session by interjecting an honest question.

Sorry, it will not happen again.

Best regards,
-fu<king idiot

NP, goto nursing school Focker... it's a much easier subject to grasp for simple minded folks.

 

[jumppilot]

Man, why do I do this? You're calling me un-educated, yet you don't know the different between 'goto' and 'go to'...is 'goto' even a word?

Sorry, but you are the one who called me a 'fu<king idiot'

NP, goto nursing school Focker... it's a much easier subject to grasp for simple minded folks.

 

[nonstop]

EDIT: Sorry, I re-read your post. You're right, I guess. My parents, a nurse and cop, made a combined total of $100,000 and I was able to go to a great school, get my ratings and get a good job....I guess making $180,000/yr just...isnt'....enough. So how about you re-read my post, put the beer down, and do a little bit of thinking before you call me a (what was it? oh thats right) fu<king idiot. I asked an honest question...so give me an honest answer.

Your parents are overpaid and are lucky they're government employees.