Coex friend said $crewed by Jetblue rates

[Truckdriver]

Once again I say remember that the SkyWest pay rate was for 18 months only and for aircraft that were not on property yet. That 18 month contract expires this year. We could have agreed to fly 777's for $20.00 and it would have had the same impact. When the new contract is inked I'd agree with the "Bringing down the house" mentality, but until then - 18 month rates on aircraft that don't exist do not move the bar.

Reno,

If you think that agreed upon rates do not move the bar, you don't really understand stuff here. It doesn't matter how long the agreement is or when the aircraft are coming, it lowers the bar. When SKYW put those rates on paper the bar was lowered the next day. I can guarantee you that Jerry A and David N were on the phone within a day after that deal was done. SKYW lowered the bar SIGNIFICANTLY when they fell hook, line, and sinker for that deal. And people say that MESA is hurting this industry. SKYW put the race to the bottom in a nosedive and JBLU just put it into a flat spin.

 

[embdrvr]

Truckdriver,

What was your excuse for a pathetic contract before SkyWest and Jet Blue lowered the proverbial bar? Maybe the fact that you were PFT? Quit blaming everyone else for your shortcomings. It's not very becoming of someone who claims to be a pilot.

And quit with the conspiracy theories already. Neeleman and Atkin may know each other but I can guarantee you they look out for their own best interests. I'm sure Jerry would have liked a shot at feeding Jet Blue. Now with the sub-industry pay rates @ Jblu there will never be any motivation for Jet Blue to contract out their small jet flying. JetBlue pilots are willing to work for less than their counterparts at the so called regional airlines.

 

[jumppilot]

delete.

 

[jumppilot]

Someone needs to answer a question for me....

Why should a captain of a 777 make $200/hr? That is $180,000/yr.

Is it because that is the way it has always been, or did someone take a look at profit margin and figure out a pilots worth? Don't give me BS about human worth or responsibility. I need logic that acountants and planners use. Besides, I have a few friends who are nurses and they make $42,000 and administer drugs that could kill people at the improper dose.

I make $26000/yr as a regional FO...with $180,000/yr I could live like a king.

Just curious

 

[nonstop]

Someone needs to answer a question for me....

Why should a captain of a 777 make $200/hr? That is $180,000/yr.

Is it because that is the way it has always been, or did someone take a look at profit margin and figure out a pilots worth? Don't give me BS about human worth or responsibility. I need logic that acountants and planners use. Besides, I have a few friends who are nurses and they make $42,000 and administer drugs that could kill people at the improper dose.

I make $26000/yr as a regional FO...with $180,000/yr I could live like a king.

Just curious

Well obviously, judging by your post, it's not due to a wealth of intelligence. Let's say you top out at $180k a year... at age 60. Factor in your wasted youth, college debt, regional years, lost earings, componded interest... after it's all said and done you're not much farther ahead than the toothless asshole who decided to pour concrete for a living and start out at $50k a year while you're paying for your education. In the mean time you're battling the feds, your health and your company... you're lucky to even make it to 60. You're gambling and the odds of you coming out ahead are not that much greater than you taking your 100k investment to Vegas and putting it on Black, or Red... or whatever your taste is for the day. Yes, airline pilots are overpaid if you happen to focus on the 1% of the lucky fu<ks who happen to pick the right course. The other 99% are underpaid.

 

[nonstop]

BTW- if you think 180k a year is a "kings salary" you truely are a fu<king idiot. I hope you don't ever have children for you will truely be slapped with reality when you attempt to pay their tuition.

 

[jumppilot]

Sorry, I overstepped my bounds...I did not mean to get in the way of a bitch session by interjecting an honest question.

Sorry, it will not happen again.

Best regards,
-fu<king idiot

EDIT: Sorry, I re-read your post. You're right, I guess. My parents, a nurse and cop, made a combined total of $100,000 and I was able to go to a great school, get my ratings and get a good job....I guess making $180,000/yr just...isnt'....enough. So how about you re-read my post, put the beer down, and do a little bit of thinking before you call me a (what was it? oh thats right) fu<king idiot. I asked an honest question...so give me an honest answer.

BTW- if you think 180k a year is a "kings salary" you truely are a fu<king idiot. I hope you don't ever have children for you will truely be slapped with reality when you attempt to pay their tuition.

 

[nonstop]

Sorry, I overstepped my bounds...I did not mean to get in the way of a bitch session by interjecting an honest question.

Sorry, it will not happen again.

Best regards,
-fu<king idiot

NP, goto nursing school Focker... it's a much easier subject to grasp for simple minded folks.

 

[jumppilot]

Man, why do I do this? You're calling me un-educated, yet you don't know the different between 'goto' and 'go to'...is 'goto' even a word?

Sorry, but you are the one who called me a 'fu<king idiot'

NP, goto nursing school Focker... it's a much easier subject to grasp for simple minded folks.

 

[nonstop]

EDIT: Sorry, I re-read your post. You're right, I guess. My parents, a nurse and cop, made a combined total of $100,000 and I was able to go to a great school, get my ratings and get a good job....I guess making $180,000/yr just...isnt'....enough. So how about you re-read my post, put the beer down, and do a little bit of thinking before you call me a (what was it? oh thats right) fu<king idiot. I asked an honest question...so give me an honest answer.

Your parents are overpaid and are lucky they're government employees.

 

[jumppilot]

Yeah, you're right.

Ok, since we're both online at the same time, I'll end this....goodnight, nonstop.

I'll see you in a crew room where you'll shake my hand and be glad to meet me, then behind my back give me garbage because I work for Chautauqua.

See you in the next crew room.

Your parents are overpaid and are lucky they're government employees.

 

[nonstop]

Yeah, you're right.

Ok, since we're both online at the same time, I'll end this....goodnight, nonstop.

I'll see you in a crew room where you'll shake my hand and be glad to meet me, then behind my back give me garbage because I work for Chautauqua.

See you in the next crew room.

I'll happily greet you. Just wait until education and law enforcement are "deregulated," your parents will earn a combined income equal to my drinking habbit.

 

[standaman]

now that was some exchange

 

[sabreliner]

Once again I say remember that the SkyWest pay rate was for 18 months only and for aircraft that were not on property yet. That 18 month contract expires this year. We could have agreed to fly 777's for $20.00 and it would have had the same impact. When the new contract is inked I'd agree with the "Bringing down the house" mentality, but until then - 18 month rates on aircraft that don't exist do not move the bar.

Contract??? What Contract??? You have NO CONTRACT!!! A contract is something that you sacrifice, work and fight for. It is enforcable by law and recognized as a binding document.

What you have is a piece of paper from your boss telling you what they feel like paying you this week. They could decide to pay everyone $20 per hour tomorrow and there would be nothing you could do about it.

 

[RJET]

Getting Back To Th Ejb Pay

JB PAYRATE WILL AFFECT US MORE THAN WE THINK.
I WOULD NOT BE SUPRISED IF JB MGMT AND OTHER AIRLINES INCREASE TEHIR 100-SEAT JETS INSTEAD OF AIRBUSES OR BOINGS BECAUSE OF THE COST SAVINGS. SORRY ABOUT THE TYPOS, i AM IN A HURRY.

 

[Lear70]

Jumppilot - Nonstop is exactly right, even if he was a little more verbally abusive than was probably warranted. Main point he made that is worth remembering: The first 10 years of your pilot career you're averaging about $20k a year, so why shouldn't your last 10 years be at $180k - it would make your average earnings for 1/4 to 2/3 of your career (20 out of 35 years) about $100,000.

Secondly, and more importantly to your question, you don't get what you're "worth" in this world, you get what you "negotiate". Those top-end 1% pilots making that wage are doing so because:

a.) The aircraft RASM -vs- CASM can support it (Revenue more than Cost). If it didn't, the company wouldn't have agreed to the rate as it would have put them out of business.

b.) The pilots believed their time, effort, knowledge, and skill were such that they warranted that wage.

c.) The pilots were able to negotiate that rate.

Personally, I don't believe making $180k would be "living like a king" either if you have 3 or 4 children with medical/dental bills (a lot of dental insurance doesn't even cover the basics and gets pretty d*mn pricey), tuition, and all the other fun kid expenses that go with them, a home mortgage on a house big enough for everyone, cars, a ski or pontoon boat, family vacations, not to mention taking a chunk out of your salary to make sure you have something to retire with because you're not going to be able to count on your pension. $8,000 a month (which is $180k less taxes and retirement investment deductions) doesn't go as far as you think, just ask one of those captains making that wage how much discretionary income is left after he or she takes care of all those bills.

Secondly, remember that statistically speaking, only 1/3 of airline pilots make it to age 60. 2/3 retire early because of medical, family, or other issues (like the DAL guys who are bailing as fast as they can so they don't take a half-million hit on their retirement with the new concessionary deal). Don't believe me? call ALPA and ask them for the stats... Far fewer pilots are making that top-end pay scale than you think.

Now 300k at the top end of the scale? I couldn't believe it when DAL and UAL inked those rates, and now we see them disappearing. Again, you get what you negotiate in this world, not what you "deserve" or what you are "worth". Hope this was in some way helpful for your understanding of why pay tops out at high rates.

p.s. I agree with the statement that this will hurt major airlines negotiating interests as well - Northwest has been negotiating with their pilots for SJ rates (70 and 90 seaters) and the negotiating probably just got a whole lot harder for the NW pilots with those rates on the table - can you say B Scale?

 

[jumppilot]

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it.

 

[FN FAL]

JB PAYRATE WILL AFFECT US MORE THAN WE THINK.
I WOULD NOT BE SUPRISED IF JB MGMT AND OTHER AIRLINES INCREASE TEHIR 100-SEAT JETS INSTEAD OF AIRBUSES OR BOINGS BECAUSE OF THE COST SAVINGS. SORRY ABOUT THE TYPOS, i AM IN A HURRY.

Don't worry, be happy...NWA will be the first to "Jack-up" the house, when they set their 70 seat pay rates soon.