Cockpit argument: Pilot slaps co-pilot

[Northpilot]

It must be a new type of CRM for Air India??


Cockpit argument: Pilot slaps co-pilot
By: Kashif Khusro
February 3, 2005
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]An Air-India pilot allegedly slapped his co-pilot in the cockpit, while the aircraft was taxiing on the Dubai runway recently. The pilot allegedly was upset with the co-pilot over an argument, and lost his temper.

Thereafter the co-pilot stalked off, refusing to fly. Perforce, AI had to get in another co-pilot on layover. The incident happened on the flight AI 855 from Mumbai to Dubai.

“First officer S D’costa had some argument with the commander Captain B Cowasjee over take-off and in a fit of rage Cowasjee slapped the co-pilot,” said an AI operations official. Following the incident, the flight was delayed for more than three hours, till another first officer could arrive as D’costa had left.

“The aircraft is certified for two pilots and they have to cooperate with each other, while flying. If the co-pilot offers a suggestion, the commander has every right to reject it, but he cannot hit his first officer,” he said.

Another senior pilot said pilots are trained in Cockpit Resource
Management (CRM), that deals with such situations.

“There are times when the situation is tense between pilots, but coming to blows is a new phenomenon, especially in India,” he said.

Both the pilots and the airline spokesperson were unavailable for comment. [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What is CRM?

Cockpit Resource Management training (CRM) is the effective utilisation of all available resources, information, equipment and the human ability to achieve a safe and efficient flight.

This also means that while the captain is the supreme authority on an aircraft, his decision can also be countermanded. But in practice this is never the case, as the first officer has to abide by the captain in all situations.

CRM has contributed towards prevention of ‘pilot error’ accidents and has saved airplanes and lives. [/font]


From :
http://ww1.mid-day.com/news/city/2005/february/102809.htm

 

[urflyingme?!]

It must be a new type of CRM for Air India??


[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What is CRM?

Cockpit Resource Management training (CRM) is the effective utilisation of all available resources, information, equipment and the human ability to achieve a safe and efficient flight.

This also means that while the captain is the supreme authority on an aircraft, his decision can also be countermanded. But in practice this is never the case, as the first officer has to abide by the captain in all situations.

CRM has contributed towards prevention of ‘pilot error’ accidents and has saved airplanes and lives. [/font]


From :
http://ww1.mid-day.com/news/city/2005/february/102809.htm

"[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But in practice this is never the case, as the first officer has to abide by the captain in all situations."
Wouldn't that effectively cancel out the benefits of CRM?
F/O: Captain we're going to strike a mountain in 30 seconds if we don't turn left"
CA: Get me some coffee and shut up(or in India apparenty SLAP)
F/O: Sorry
CRASH
[/font]

 

[414Flyer]

I think I was tempted a few times to hit one of my indian copilots this summer when I was doing WxMod in India

 

[Northern Lights]

I think I was tempted a few times to hit one of my indian copilots this summer when I was doing WxMod in India

Sounds like you've got some good stories to share!

 

[bobbysamd]

I had an instrument student I wanted to slap while on his instrument cross-country when he started arguing with me about pitch v. power controlling altitude.

 

[minitour]

I had an instrument student I wanted to slap while on his instrument cross-country when he started arguing with me about pitch v. power controlling altitude.

That's when you just pull out the "I'm a CFI, you don't know what you're talking about" thing

-mini

 

[414Flyer]

Sounds like you've got some good stories to share!

Yep! Not all Indian pilots were bad, I had 3 I enjoyed flying with. If they had been to the US and instructed, generally they were okay, because they had a chance to increase their experience and knowledge, since there is far more freedom and ability for your own decision making in aviation here as opposed to there.

I did have one though, who really had very little experience outside of an Indian flight school, so basically he had never had a chance to do anything other than what was explicitly filed for in the mandatory flight plan, filed hours before every flight.

We had a Garmin audio panel where you could isolate com1 and 2, so I used 1 to communicate with the meteorologist, and I let him use 2 to talk to Indian ATC. The switch to fire the ejectable flares was on his side on a small control box out of my reach too, all he has to do is press the switch on my command.

We had been doing some penetrations, and while approaching another one, he is talking to ATC. Its pretty freaking obvious that we are getting ready to do another one, since we are flying straight towards a small growing cell at our altitude, and are a couple miles away.

We enter it, get the updraft and icing I am looking for, so I say "Fire".

Instead of pressing the switch, he sticks his left arm up so that his hand is practically in my face because he is talking to ATC. Well our job is seeding, not talking, besides he can still just press the switch anyways.

So again, louder, I say "Fire!". Again, his hand goes up in my face, which that by itself really pisses me off anyways regardless of circumstances.

This time I yell "FIRE THE F$CKING FLARE!!!!". Well by then we pop out of the cell into blue sky, so that penetration was wasted.

His reply "I cant hear ATC when you are yelling at me." I wanted to go ballistic even more when I heard that. There is no reason he cant just press the switch while talking, and that was the only reason I had to yell.

All this guy has to do was just press a switch when he heard me say Fire. It took him more effort to raise up his left arm and stick his hand up. And then he said he did not know we were doing a penetration too. How in the he11 could he not know when we went from blue sky into a towering Cu cloud, with a strong updraft.

he also thought it was my job to decide for him how much IFR he could log, the idea of point to point IFR went over his head, since all he knew was textbook airway and radial IFR. If we would RTB due to low fuel, as soon as we landed, first thing he wanted to do was to go to the terminal for coffee, instead of what we needed to do which was refuel, re-chem and get ready to take right back off again. Some of this here is little crap, but I was about ready to blow my stack when he thought he could not press the fire switch because he was talking on the radio.

 

[GravityHater]

God, what if you actually were on fire?
He would have said, 'Be polite, you must wait.'!

 

[urflyingme?!]

wxmod?
I thought all that stuff was like chemgoo crazy talk
please educate me ! sounds really interesting!!(I'm being serious, not about wxmod-ing being fake, but i'd like to know what it is! ehe))

 

[Typhoon1244]

...Captain B Cowasjee...[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font]

I suppose this isn't very culturally sensetive of me...but I can't read that name without laughing!

 

[bobbysamd]

I had an instrument student I wanted to slap while on his instrument cross-country when he started arguing with me about pitch v. power controlling altitude.

That's when you just pull out the "I'm a CFI, you don't know what you're talking about" thing . . . .

The point is that he should have waited until we were on the ground, not while we were on a clearance.

He did not schedule for several weeks, did not adhere to deadlines, busted a stage check, but eventually passed his FAA practical. I gave him a "D" for the course, primarily because of his overall attitude.

 

[minitour]

The point is that he should have waited until we were on the ground, not while we were on a clearance.

Agreed...my comment was in jest, thus the ""

The cockpit (flight deck?) isn't the place for an argument. Be safe, get the job done and then when you're enjoying a brew that night you can slug it out.

Question on something they didn't cover in the Ground School:
Say a student gets REALLY agressive and is compromising safety but won't get off the controls...what exactly do you do? Squawk 75? I can't imagine that would be the greatest idea, but I mean...do you beat him into submission until you can get the controls back and land? Notify ATC?

I've heard of the "agression" devense mechanism, but never what to do if you're in it deep with someone...

-mini

 

[mayday1]

I've heard of the "agression" devense mechanism, but never what to do if you're in it deep with someone...

-mini

I would calmly explain that they are not PIC, that I am PIC, and that they need to follow my directives. if they refused to listen, would not let go of the controls, and the situation was dangerous, i would not hesitate to declare an emergency -- and then do whatever necessary to regain control of the aircraft.

 

[mesaba2425]

I wonder if the pilot bought his crew ice cream?

 

[Flechas]

Agreed...my comment was in jest, thus the ""

The cockpit (flight deck?) isn't the place for an argument. Be safe, get the job done and then when you're enjoying a brew that night you can slug it out.

Question on something they didn't cover in the Ground School:
Say a student gets REALLY agressive and is compromising safety but won't get off the controls...what exactly do you do? Squawk 75? I can't imagine that would be the greatest idea, but I mean...do you beat him into submission until you can get the controls back and land? Notify ATC?

I've heard of the "agression" devense mechanism, but never what to do if you're in it deep with someone...

-mini

After trying to tell him that you are the PIC and you want the controls, and he doesn't cooperate,you beat him up! But it has to be really bad and you have to be assertive with the firt pnch, because if he is bigger than you then he'll beat you up.

 

[Metro752]

I read elsewhere on this board, I think in the military section of a female IP who just gives the student a good karate chop to the neck to "melt" the student.