Coca Cola

[sleepy]

I don't know jack about flying for Coke, but I did meet a Coke pilot a few years back at the Women In Aviation Conference. She was a former F/A for the company who went out and got her ratings, then was offered a Citation F/O position at less than 400TT! I was amazed.

A corp F/A friend of mine is trying to do the very same thing now and is hoping for a F/O slot somplace with pretty low time. How common is this type of thing anyway? She also heard of some internals getting jobs at low TT with her company.

Yes,

Coke once required all of their pilots to work as FA's first (maybe they still do). That is probably how this happened.

I know of corporate flight departments that use professional FAs, but Coke is the only one that I know of that requires pilots to work as FAs for a while before they can upgrade to pilot.

Here is a career development idea for you. Instead of trying to use your gender as a short-cut to the cockpit of some EEOC generated corporate job, why don't you get a job flying freight at night. Get some real world PIC time flying poorly maintained aircraft in all kinds of bad WX. Then, when you have some good experience, start applying for better jobs.

I don't really blame you for trying to avoid paying dues in this business. It isn't much fun. In the long-run you will be better off for having done it that way. I also don't discount anything that you say just because you lack a lot of experience.

You seem to have enough experience to land a job flying a Baron or Navajo hauling checks or cargo. I started that way with less experience than you have now. Those aircraft lead to the Carvan (PIC turbine time), which lead to the B20 (multi PIC turbine time), which lead to the Lear (multi jet PIC time). The pay was not great, but the experience is valuable, more so than sitting in the right seat of some corporate jet for years, unable to ever upgrade due to a lack of PIC experience.

 

[Indigo]

She also heard of some internals getting jobs at low TT with her company.

I think many companies hire from within, both male and female, if they can. You're already a known quantity. Also, I would think that having been an FA or cabin attendant the person would hopefully have the customer service aspect down.

The down side of going this route is that you can spend a long time in a non-flying job with no guarantees until you get a chance.

 

[English]

Here is a career development idea for you. Instead of trying to use your gender as a short-cut to the cockpit of some EEOC generated corporate job, why don't you get a job flying freight at night. Get some real world PIC time flying poorly maintained aircraft in all kinds of bad WX. Then, when you have some good experience, start applying for better jobs.

I don't really blame you for trying to avoid paying dues in this business. It isn't much fun. In the long-run you will be better off for having done it that way. I also don't discount anything that you say just because you lack a lot of experience.

You seem to have enough experience to land a job flying a Baron or Navajo hauling checks or cargo. I started that way with less experience than you have now. Those aircraft lead to the Carvan (PIC turbine time), which lead to the B20 (multi PIC turbine time), which lead to the Lear (multi jet PIC time). The pay was not great, but the experience is valuable, more so than sitting in the right seat of some corporate jet for years, unable to ever upgrade due to a lack of PIC experience.

Sleepy, what the hell are you talking about? Av8trxx is a pilot at American Eagle. You insult her by first telling her not to use her gender as a short cut to the cockpit. Where did you get the impression that she did that? Let me guess...if a female pilot is employed, then she must have "used her gender as a short cut to the cockpit?" Then you insult her again and state, "I don't really blame you for trying to avoid paying dues in this industry." You are a moron. Av8trxx paid her dues working at Southwest Airlines, I believe as a tug driver, and was on furlough from Eagle for over a year. How much in dues do you think one has to paying for a job at a regional airline? Then the ultimate insult - you think she has enough experience to get a job flying a Baron. So, now you are delegated with deciding what type of job is appropriate for women pilots? Now I see why AirTran wouldn't hire you, and you are a lifer at ASA. I suggest you take a hard inner look at your values and your perceptions of others in life. You are pretty judgmental for someone not so perfect.

 

[sleepy]

Sleepy, what the hell are you talking about? Av8trxx is a pilot at American Eagle. You insult her by first telling her not to use her gender as a short cut to the cockpit. Where did you get the impression that she did that? Let me guess...if a female pilot is employed, then she must have "used her gender as a short cut to the cockpit?" Then you insult her again and state, "I don't really blame you for trying to avoid paying dues in this industry." You are a moron. Av8trxx paid her dues working at Southwest Airlines, I believe as a tug driver, and was on furlough from Eagle for over a year. How much in dues do you think one has to paying for a job at a regional airline? Then the ultimate insult - you think she has enough experience to get a job flying a Baron. So, now you are delegated with deciding what type of job is appropriate for women pilots? Now I see why AirTran wouldn't hire you, and you are a lifer at ASA. I suggest you take a hard inner look at your values and your perceptions of others in life. You are pretty judgmental for someone not so perfect.

Oh, I thought she was the other one, the one that started this who thing by trying to get into Coke (similar sounding screen names, same low TT of 1800 hours, my bad for not looking more closely). Oh well, me so sorry. The advice was for the other one, and I think that it is valid advice.

AirTran? I don't know what you are talking about? I have never interviewed at AirTran. I wouldn't mind working there, but my real goal is DAL mainline. I was close to an interview when 911 happened, and I feel that ASA is the best place for me right now if I want that to happen

Lifer at ASA, could be? You never know how things will turn out in this business. ASA could end up being a great place to spend a career, who knows? I started in small planes, worked my way up to and flew really big ones for a while, and now I'm back in the small ones. I might even go back to corporate flying, if the right opportunity comes along.

Me prefect? Who is? My judgements are based on my experiences in this business. I could be wrong, but I still believe that I am right on the core issue here. Affirmative action is the wrong answer. It punnishes people who never did anything wrong. It is basically unfair.

 

[English]

Oh, I thought she was the other one, the one that started this who thing by trying to get into Coke (similar sounding screen names, my bad for not looking more closely). Oh well, me so sorry. The advice was for the other one, and I think that it is valid advice.


Me prefect? Who is? My judgements are based on my experiences in this business. I could be wrong, but I still believe that I am right on the core issue here. Affirmative action is the wrong answer. It punnishes people who never did anything wrong. It is basically unfair.

The original poster never said anything about getting on with Coke using affirmative action. YOU made assumptions that because she is a female, she must be trying to get on using her gender.

I think the fact that you confused the two posters is telling. Do you also confuse people that are of the same race?

 

[Kingairrick]

I normally stay away from these types of threads. However, I have some personal experience in this area.

I was always one to believe the old "If I were a black woman..." Maybe that's the way it works in the airlines or at some large companies, but I have found that in corporate aviation, the opposite is true.

I have been flying with a female FO for the last 6 months. At first I thought she was paranoid and just being a chick. In my experience, I will see something gender biased against her, at least once a week. From the fat a$$ Lear Captain in the pilot's lounge that askes her what airplane she's the FA on, to the other pilots asking me how I fly with a girl all the time.

I have seen her apply for positions that she is well qualified for, and not even get a call. She is not interested the regionals and wants to stay corporate. For the record, she is attractive, happily married, and can hold intelligent conversations. Flight time: over 3000 TT, almost 2000 Multi, 500 Turbine, Masters Degree.

My point is; the gender bias works both ways. It may help some places. But it hurts at others. It is commonly known that our flight department is one of the only places in our area where women will get hired. I never would have believed it until witnessing it with my own eyes.

 

[LXApilot]

Our chief pilot used to be one of Coca Cola's Gulfstream captains and was there for more than 10 years. I've been introduced to a few people over there and the chief said he could drop you a name or two. PM me for the details.

 

[Av8trxx]

Here is a career development idea for you. Instead of trying to use your gender as a short-cut to the cockpit of some EEOC generated corporate job, why don't you get a job flying freight at night. Get some real world PIC time flying poorly maintained aircraft in all kinds of bad WX. Then, when you have some good experience, start applying for better jobs.

I don't really blame you for trying to avoid paying dues in this business. It isn't much fun. In the long-run you will be better off for having done it that way. I also don't discount anything that you say just because you lack a lot of experience.

Thanks. I get plenty of career develpoment advice all the time, being at Eagle and all. Although people talk smack about Beagle all the time, but it still sounds a bit better than night 135 freight! Never did that. While on furlough I was getting checked out at such an outfit in a 402, but they sprung a training contract on me. So I never did get more than 15 hours flying 135....

And yes, I do agree with your 'career development' line of thinking. My F/A g/f is apparently 'starry eyed' and hopeful from hearing a few tales of corp F/As gaining quick entry into a pilot position becuase of who they know and thinks she can do it too. (Another pal of mine has 1300TT & 100 ME and can't get an interview anywhere and the F/A thinks she's gonna find a job with less than half that TT time? It must really be WHO you know if THAT does happen.) I simply was wondering just how realistic her mode of thinking really is.

You seem to have enough experience to land a job flying a Baron or Navajo hauling checks or cargo.

Yes, I think I do too. However, I like the Saab I fly in my avatar much better than a Baron. At least it has some catering (LOL) and a toilet- even if it is a gross toilet.

 

[sleepy]

Thanks. I get plenty of career develpoment advice all the time, being at Eagle and all. Although people talk smack about Beagle all the time, but it still sounds a bit better than night 135 freight! Never did that. While on furlough I was getting checked out at such an outfit in a 402, but they sprung a training contract on me. So I never did get more than 15 hours flying 135....

And yes, I do agree with your 'career development' line of thinking. My F/A g/f is apparently 'starry eyed' and hopeful from hearing a few tales of corp F/As gaining quick entry into a pilot position becuase of who they know and thinks she can do it too. (Another pal of mine has 1300TT & 100 ME and can't get an interview anywhere and the F/A thinks she's gonna find a job with less than half that TT time? It must really be WHO you know if THAT does happen.) I simply was wondering just how realistic her mode of thinking really is.



Yes, I think I do too. However, I like the Saab I fly in my avatar much better than a Baron. At least it has some catering (LOL) and a toilet- even if it is a gross toilet.

Sorry if I offended you (actually, I think that English was the only one offended). Maybe you should come over to ASA. We have hired quite a few Eagle people. You could get better pay and a faster upgrade.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

 

[Av8trxx]

Sorry if I offended you...

It takes a lot to offend me! Having been in the airlines for 16 years and working with 95% men in both my positions, just about everything is like water off a ducks back. While the lure of the 'greener grass' someplace else is always enticing, I am mostly pleased with my lot as a Beagle. Where else can I get a 4 day trip with overnights home in SoCal? (Even the KSAN SKW crews are being sent to ID & UT these days.) While the upgrade may be slower, I tend to think the QOL will be better having a very short commute and more time at home.


Good Luck to you too!

 

[AV1ATRX]

Did anybody ever tell Sleepy about what happens when you assume? I'm guessing not.

He must be a joy to fly with...

 

[sleepy]

Did anybody ever tell Sleepy about what happens when you assume? I'm guessing not.

He must be a joy to fly with...

Likewise, I'm sure.

 

[Stearmandriver]

Me prefect?

Anyone ever read "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?"

 

[Lear70]

Another pal of mine has 1300TT & 100 ME and can't get an interview anywhere and the F/A thinks she's gonna find a job with less than half that TT time? It must really be WHO you know if THAT does happen.) I simply was wondering just how realistic her mode of thinking really is.

It most definitely is about who you know in this business. Recommendations shortcut your ability to get called at every level of the industry. It happened to me for my first charter gig and at every job I've been at, I and other pilots recommended people, and those pilots always got to the top of the resume pile for interview before non-recommended people...

Anyone ever read "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?"

Yep...

 

[sleepy]

Maybe not such a great place to work after all.

The next Enron?

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/401074|top|05-03-2004::07:26|reuters.html

 

[splatt]

I know a pilot at Coke and asked him about many of the issues dicussed in this thread. He told me that Coke had a flight department with a great atmosphere before they hired a Flight Department Manager. This manager took responsiblity for hiring away from the Chief Pilot which caused a lot of problems due his hiring practices. The new manager got a bonus for hiring women and minorities. (That manager no longer works there.) This caused low morale within the department because several type rated and very experienced applicants were never called in favor of low-time women and minorities. At least one of the women was so bad she had to go to Flight Safety several times before she could be typed. After one frustrating trip after another, one Captain got mad and told the low-time female she was not doing well. She then went to the HR department and blamed him. He quit because HR chastised him.

I now hear things are getting better since that manager left. The low-time pilots are doing better and morale is improving. So, at the end of the day, those low-time hires were in the right place at the right time, they got lucky and are making the best of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

Ask yourself... Would you turn down that opportunity?

 

[GEXDriver]

I posted my "beef", as you call it, right below your post. I didn't feel the need to make it private.

Yes, I recall that you stated that I lacked integrity if I clearly stated what I believed. It's an interesting personal philosophy that you have.

 

[GEXDriver]

GEX--I think only a moderator can pull your post. I didn't get time to report it. BTW, your post was incorrect. That's why I corrected the info. And posting someone's name in that context is chickensh*t.TC

Wrong Timmie Boy! All I did was post a brief history of the flight department and mention one of the new guys about whom I have personal knowledge. I said nothing about her personal history - you did that.

 

[English]

Yes, I recall that you stated that I lacked integrity if I clearly stated what I believed. It's an interesting personal philosophy that you have.

Nope, I never stated that. I had a problem with you posting an individual's name on this website. If you think that's OK, then YOU have an interesting personal philosophy.