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Coca Cola

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Re: Re: Re: Coca Cola

tathepilot said:
ok... so what's the problem ?
Don't like coke. Don't apply.

Don't worry, I won't. I worked as a corporate pilot for several years before moving on to the airlines. I have no interest in going back to corporate. If I did have such an interest, I would want to work for one of the better flight departments at FTY (Home Depot, Cox or BellSouth).

Coke always had a bad reputation among the flight departments based at FTY. Other than a few nice Gulfstreams, thay don't have much to offer a professional pilot in the way of career satisfaction. Maybe that will change someday, but I doubt it.
 
I certainly agree that Coke isn't on my list of desirable places to spend my career. They have given in to blackmail by Jesse Jackson and have instituted the same type of hiring policies that UAL did in the early '90's.

Go there, get the type and move on. Eventually, maybe the management will get the message.... Maybe.TC
 
AA717driver said:
That's a chickensh*t move. She didn't get hired straight out of Purdue. She was furloughed at Eagle.

Oh I see..."Eagle experience"... well that's completely different then! No wonder she was considered best-qualified in a mile-high stack of resumes. I mean , if there's no finer indicator of G-lV/G-V corporate captaincy potential than "EAGLE experience", I certainly don't know what it is. In fact, I believe I heard somehwere that every SIC hour of.....you guessed it.... "EAGLE experience" equates to something like 10 hrs of regular, garden variety jet PIC time. I might have even been 20hrs PIC. I can't remember exactly, but I know it's a lot!

Glad I never needed to apply there since (and to my everlasting shame) I have none of these much-coveted "EAGLE experience" SIC hours so preferred by corporate flight departments in their applicants. I'd guess it's because insurance companies offer much lower rates for pilots that have "EAGLE experience", and if insuring the PICs is the subject, they pretty much waive the experience levels they want to see in regular, non-Eagle experienced pilots.

I agree AA717.....it's not about gender, like all these sexists imply.....it's all about that EAGLE experience. And these fools have the audacity to think that she's wasn't the most qualified! I mean, haven't they noticed that the pilots ranks of most Fortune 100 companies are made up of low-time EAGLE furloughees? He11, there's practically a giant vacumn sucking them up if they're on the street.
 
Catyak--I just pointed out that she didn't just come out of Purdue.

The whole point was:

1.) You don't trash someone by name on a board like this. (Unless they are a public figure.)

2.) I don't begrudge someone for taking a good job with low time.

3.) If someone says something inaccurate here, people generally correct them.

4.) There are plenty of pricks in this business. Genuinely nice people shouldn't be trashed for no reason.

TC
 
I met a Coca Cola pilot last March. This pilot was very young and when asked, admitted the First Officer position had been obtained through a headhunter...I received the name of the headhunter through our conversation.

There isn't much discussion about using such services here on the forum, it would be interesting to see how many people have obtained positions with a headhunter's help.

The headhunter's name is Ms. Cyndi Santini of Corporate Aviation Analysis and Planning, Inc. Here is a link: http://www.caap.com/default.htm
Is anyone familiar with using such services?

I thought about looking into it, but was told via other inquiries they won't touch furloughed airline pilots.
 
i don't think i've ever seen the phrase 'eagle experience' so much in a single post. that was amazing.

give this man the $10,000!

haha. just kidding man.

by the way, wasn't she at eagle for all of 8-12 months? still can't blame her for taking the job. i'm just saying. it wasn't that much 'eagle experience.'
 
CatYaaak,

I must have missed something in my career. From your remarks re "Eagle copilot time ", I take it you don't have much regard for copilot time as you slammed this lady for HER copilot time. So, tell me...were you born with jet PIC time or did YOU take a copilot job someplace, some time in your career, to get the qualifications you now have ?

Everyone starts someplace, somehow. For some, it's a place like Eagle, for you perhaps, someplace different. If she shouldn't have taken the job at Coke, what would you propose for a furlough like her...stand in the unemployment line while someone else takes a decent job SHE could've had ?

I learn stuff all the time...teach me.
 
I had a headhunter approach me about a corporate position about a year ago. It was for one of those positions Falcon Capt would have been proud of me for taking. However, it would have required me to move east of the Mississippi. No thanks.

The headhunter received my name through an industry professional whom I consulted for help brushing up a friend's resume (thanks Resume Writer!). Network, network, network!

About the girl bashing....

A former coworker of mine (a male) was just offered a corporate position at a Fortune 50 company. Starting pay for FOs is 85k a year, lots of benefits, etc. This pilot has maybe 2000 TT, most of it in a Conquest, with maybe 500 in a small jet. These kinds of jobs do go to what airline-types consider as "low-timers". This guy got the job because a former coworker of his worked there and recommended him. Now, if a woman with these same qualifications was hired, many of you would claim she was hired because of her sex. So, what would be your complaint about why this guy was hired?

If it's not right in your eyes that a 2000TT woman is hired for a good corporate position, is it also not right that a 200TT male is hired for a good corporate position? I'd love to read responses on your view of this.
 
Okay, I can feel the dogpile beginning and I've got to go fly, so let me clarify a few things and why I chose to respond.

First, I agree that it's not right to name names in a public forum unless perhaps it's to praise them. From the sound of it, this girl is a good person, and I believe that good things should happen to good people. In her case, it sounds like the Fairy Godmother of Good Job-Hunting Fortune pranged her on the head, and she would have been unfit to fly on psychological grounds if she had turned it down. You can't fault her for that, and I most certainly don't.

Second, I've been flying with girl/women pilots since my high school flying club days and university, had many female students, and they've been my peers in both corporate and airline flying. A pilot is a pilot in my book, some good some not so good, but I've flown with and observed many who could fly circles around most men. As far as male pilots who think that women don't have what it takes, I've got no time for 'em, and only hope that some night they're visited by the ghost of Hanna Reich in an ME-163 Komet.

Third, women are far more interesting than men. I've never shared a cockpit with one who has bored me for hours droning on about Union issues, how management sucks, or their mutual fund.

To address a few comments directed at my post:

AA717driver;

I agree with all 4 of your points. As to why I responded to your first one the way I did see my response to bafanguy below.

Bafanguy and English;

I never slammed this girl for her SIC time at Eagle, my point was to highlight the notion that it made any difference, and how ludicrous it is to automatically assume her hours gained at Eagle were an advantage. Usually it's a huge liability. You see, it's not a girl/boy thing, it's an airline/corporate thing. Pilots with airline backgrounds are viewed with suspicion by most large flight departments as a matter of economics and hiring/retention hassles more than anything else. They figure at best, no matter what someone who's young with low time (male OR female) says during an interview, there's a 50-50 chance they will jump ship to an airline given the chance.

These flight departments don't see themselves as "stepping stones" and that's why they pay new-hires 80K a year, especially when costs for Gulfstream initial and recurrent training are running about $30,000, smaller equipment not much less. History has also shown that too-high a percentage of ex or wannabe airline types don't pan out in the corporate world for various reasons, and there's plenty of examples, that's not my opinon. It's hard to justify hiring one with the costs involved given that risk and the fact there are umpteen thousand qualified pilots with no such blemish. Some managers are even given marching orders to only hire only those already type-rated in their aircraft. To their credit, a lot of managers resist this knowing that the PERSON will make the difference between a good employee and a bad one. Fitting the individual to the culture of a particular company IS more important than type ratings or hours, because even the largest of 91 flight department is really a small family.

Any department manager who's hiring practices result in a costly revolving door will be noticed, and they'll probably have to answer for it. Now factor in the fact that a potential new-hire is not only young, with low time...but also a FULOUGHEE? Well the chances of that person staying on just plummeted dramatically. I can't overemphasis how unusual that is.

English, the reason why people get corporate jobs via networking, especially at Fortune 50 companies, is for the above reasons. It's the whole reason why recommendations from a good employee carry weight. That person is vouching not only for their piloting ability, but because this issue of "taking the type rating and running" (someon here even recommended it) is so prevalent, and that person's personality. From the looks of the experience of person who got hired in your example, he never showed signs of having airline goals. I'm sure they asked him about it during his interviews. I'd think the very same thing about a female with that same experience and attitude.

So anyone who's been in this business for awhile must ask themselves...."how can a young, low-time, airline FURLOUGHEE get hired at a place like that given the competition and experience out on the street?". Well, she certainly must have said the right things during the interview. Everyone has said she's nice, and that goes a long, long way. Perhaps she swore up and down she'd not go back to Eagle when they call. Personally, I'd have any furloughee show me a letter resigning their seniority number before I'd consider them, and maybe she did so.

Now, if she admits that she'll run back to Eagle when they call, then there's another agenda at work...not hers, the company's..and she's not to be faulted for it. If the road of least resistance is paved for her and she's shown the way, well that's just her good luck and I hope she's up to the task after she gets on the road and keeps her job. Flying is a great equalizer, and you can't fake your way through it.

So to discuss the "gender factor" in hiring..factual examples. AA717driver, one of my best friends got hired at American Airlines with no college degree when competitive mins dictated it. She got an offer from United too about the same time. She had the equivalent of 1 years' worth of college credit only, but spent her college-age years flying instead. A wonderful girl and great pilot but not one guy during that time I ever heard of got hired without that degree. She's still there and doing fine, and I was happy for her and still am. Fair to others? Maybe not but life not fair and there it is.

I knew a Chief Pilot (retired now) for a large Midwest company running multiple Gulfstreams who told me directly that he got marching orders from the Board..."we don't want to see only white, all-male crews anymore", so he then began scouring the state, then the country, for applicants. Actively recruiting. Believe me this place had people trying to get into there for years with experience up the ying yang. A few lunar landings was considered competitive. (Epilogue; both these lying low-timers hired jumped ship to the airlines soon afterwards..one of them, a then-girlfriend of a friend of mine, didn't even know what a Gulfstream was when she got the offer....Im not kidding).

This is NOT TO SAY the girl in the Coke example is like this..not at all I sincerely hope and will assume she got hired on her merits until proven wrong. I'm just giving real examples of how ludicrous and expensive political correctness can be, and how in the end it does a real disservice to the women in aviation and their reputions.

Hopefully she's what you say...a great girl....then I hope for her success and a long career at Coke. If she retained her airline seniority number and jumps ship then a stupid company got what it deserved, in addition to her not being such a great girl after all but just another airline-type they should have known better not to hire.

Got to go fly...I hope that clears things up.
 
Deleted post

For what it's worth, I did not delete my post - it was done for me. Probably at the request of someone without the guts to PM me with their beef. It is only libel if it's wrong.
 
I posted my "beef", as you call it, right below your post. I didn't feel the need to make it private.
 
Like it or not, gender bias or whatever is a fact of aviation now.

I know several women that had the quals. of their peers, and a good many that didn't. But the simple fact is the Gub-ment and activists wants a certian cross section of society to show up in the airlines and corporate world, even if the numbers in that profession do not support the required percentage.

We have roughly 600,000 pilots in the U.S., of which about 160,000 (Last time I checked) are ATP's. Of that 160k count on 10,000 or so as retired airline (Over 60) So we are dealing with 150,000 ATPs out there of which the airlines account for probably 90% of them

Now figure that out of that 600,000 total pilots (Going from memory here) I believe about 5% are women. Of which (Again from memory) about 2% hold advanced ratings. So you can see how trying to hire even 8% women can become difficult for airlines when there are not that many out there to start with.

We haven't even dealt with other minorities yet and they account for even less of the total pilot force.

I have an African American buddy from the airline, and he is the first to admit that he was virtually assured a spot at a major......he said and i quote "If I was a Black Woman instead of a man I would be 100% assured of the job"

He is a good pilot and had some good experience, but of our class of 50 he had the least amount of time and was the only one who had never been Captain anywhere.

Unfortunatly there are some that make it through who cannot fly and have no business in an airplane, one that I know, I am amazed that she is still alive!!! (At least I haven't read about her killing herself yet, Keep an eye out for King Air NTSB reports) So far she has been fired from 3 jobs and is still getting snapped up again and again!! These are the ones that make it hard on the rest of the minorities that actually have the experience and know how.

My advise? Don't let it bother you......you can't do anything about it anyhow! Its like taking a mechanical on the last leg of a 4 day trip, you know Murphys law says its going to happen, so just shrug your shoulders and watch the entertainment.
 
Catyaak--Thanks for taking time to explain. For the record, she passed on recall to Eagle. Can't predict what she or any other ex-airline type will do. The traditional view of airline pilots who are furloughed is correct. After the recalls started in '94, most of the furloughed airline types bolted back.

I believe today is different. I'm done with the airlines--the benefits just aren't there.

But quite a few corporate pilots have gone to JetBlue recently so you can never tell what someone you hire will do.

GEX--I think only a moderator can pull your post. I didn't get time to report it. BTW, your post was incorrect. That's why I corrected the info. And posting someone's name in that context is chickensh*t.TC
 
Okay, I'll ask the obvious again...

If it's not right in your eyes that a 2000TT woman is hired for a good corporate position, is it also not right that a 2000TT male is hired for a good corporate position? I'd love to read responses on your view of this.
 
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