CO Nov 19th Class

[LARRY H. JUNIOR]

lookinfor better, check your pm.....

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Just curious about what the average pilot age of the CAL new hire clases has been??

MJG,

I'd wager that the average age is around 33 or so. In my class only 4 or 5 of the 12 were under 30. The oldest was 37 I think.

-Neal

 

[jonjuan]

What's the average BPC.....balls per class?

 

[Captain X]

Just curious about what the average pilot age of the CAL new hire clases has been??

Our class was pretty close to that too, ranging from 38 to 24.

 

[skiutah]

24? I'd love to be that guy!!!

 

[pkober]

Blah Blah Blah

Hey it looks like you meds are starting to wear off and get your darn bag out of the bag room.

 

[BOHICAgain]

Training guy I flew with the other day said that if passed, the age 60 rule won't be implemented until 2008. That would give one more year of good retirement rates.

If someone retires at 60 and the rule is changed can they come back to work till 65??

 

[CAL EWR B737]

If someone retires at 60 and the rule is changed can they come back to work till 65??

Most importantly it would cost the company millions in training costs. To retrain those that come back and then retrain the many that would be bumped to lower paid airplanes in the same stutus and downgrades. For example if 500 retired pilots came back that could create 1500 or more additional training cycles a huge night mare and logistical problem.

 

[cal73cap]

Letter from MEC says that if age 60 rule passes it would have to be implemented within 30 days. This would definitely affect hiring and our new PBS bidding system. Also a new system bid would have to come out to cover the non retirements for 2007. Just had my medical and the FAA doctor says that as of right now, no new medical requirements would have to be implemented.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Where is this letter I haven't seen it? I have many contacts within CALALPA and some in ALPA national. To date no one has any definitive information on how or when it would be implemented should it come to fruition at all, too many unknowns at this point. However one of our Assistant CP's wrote the following and given the source he quotes I feel this is accurate infomation. Our congressional liaison has good contacts and a good feel for what goes on at the hill and in the past has been very accurate so I would say below is the most accurate info to date.




The following was a blast mail from one of our Assistant Chief Pilots about upcoming age 60 vote in congress. I xxx out the name of our Congressional liaison he is talking about because I didn't feel it would be right to post his name on this forum. I will say that our liaison is very tapped into the hill and in the past his information has been very accurate.


"I have gotten some new information about the age 65 legislation from XXX who is our Congressional Liaison and very knowledgeable of the inner workings of Congress. There has been much speculation that on Nov 23rd that Congress would approve the age 65 legislation. I was one of those who was under that impression. But according to XXX, the amendment is only attached to the Senate bill which is attached to the Transportation Funding Legislation.

It is not a part of the House version of the bill. If it passes the Senate, it would have to go back to committee for a compromise bill which could eliminate the age 65 legislation or even rewrite the whole bill. His feeling is that if it passes that it would not be until about the summer of 2007 before it will be in place.

The FAA has already established an ARC (Rule Change Committee) to determine if the rule is to be changed exactly how it would be worded. It is very unusual for this committee to meet before being directed by Congress which has led many (including myself) to believe that they were shooting for a Nov 23 implementation date. The significance of Nov 23 is that is when ICAO starts allowing age 65 pilots to fly worldwide, including flying into the US. There has been some pressure on Congress to give our pilots the same right. However the ARC which is attempting to put together the new ruling (if it comes to pass) has not been making much progress, in fact there have been heated discussions and they are not even remotely close to any agreement.

Then there is the political side of the Issue. If the Republicans can keep control of the House, XXX feels that the legislation will pass and be implemented next summer. If the Democrats win control of the House, then all the Committee Chairs will change and this legislation will be pushed back and probably tabled to a later date, perhaps some time next year. So as you can see, there is more uncertainty to the passage of this bill than was originally thought. I will keep you posted as more information becomes available.

On a related subject, I have received some questions about how age 65 legislation might effect out retirement pay. Let me try and clarify that issue. First of all, your new B fund is your money and is in no way connected with when you retire except that the longer you keep working the longer the company puts money into it. So the B fund is not a player in the age 65 equation. The A fund is frozen. Your piece of that pie remains the same whether you retire at age 60, 65 or somewhere in between. The payment will not go up or down after age 60. Hence the term "frozen". The A plan is currently about 60% funded and the company continues to make payments into the plan to eventually bring up to being 100% funded. The company is ahead of schedule on doing this and the funds that are in there right now are sufficient to meet our retirement obligations.

Here is where it gets a little complicated. If you stay past 60 you will still get the same annuity payment as if you retired at 60. Annuities are monthly payments to you during retirement. Very few pilots take the annuity. Most pilots take the lump sum option. The A fund value is determined by the cost of the annuity. As I mentioned the annuity value is frozen and will not change regardless of if you stay past 60. BUT, the people who pay out the annuity base the total cost on actuary tables which determine how long you will live and therefore how long you will be drawing money. Therefore if they figure you are going to die at age 85 they will be paying you for 25 years at age 60 and only 20 years if you retire at 65. And since the monthly payments are the same, the plan is worth more money at age 60 then it is at age 65. Have I confused you yet? So if you wait past age 60 to retire and you decide to take the lump sum, the calculations to turn an annuity into a lump sum will result in the value of the lump sum going down about 3% a year past age 60. The good news is that every year you are losing 3% from your lump sum in the A fund, the company is funding 12.5% into your B fund, so you still come out ahead about 9.5% for each year you delay retirement. Plus you get your salary those extra years you work as well. I hope this add some clarity and not confusion."
[

 

[Hutchman]

So if you wait past age 60 to retire and you decide to take the lump sum, the calculations to turn an annuity into a lump sum will result in the value of the lump sum going down about 3% a year past age 60. The good news is that every year you are losing 3% from your lump sum in the A fund, the company is funding 12.5% into your B fund, so you still come out ahead about 9.5% for each year you delay retirement. Plus you get your salary those extra years you work as well. I hope this add some clarity and not confusion."
[

This assumes your lump sum is equal to a years pay. Some lumps are around 1 Million, a year pay maybe 200k-250k. You do not come out 9.5% ahead unless your lump is the exact same as 1 years pay. Don't forget about the rate change that is being implimented over the next few years that will base your lump on a higher rate which also will lower the payout on top of the 3% reduction. If you are getting close to retirement please consult a finacial planner and don't take the company or union's word for it.

 

[MECH]

This assumes your lump sum is equal to a years pay. Some lumps are around 1 Million, a year pay maybe 200k-250k. You do not come out 9.5% ahead unless your lump is the exact same as 1 years pay. Don't forget about the rate change that is being implimented over the next few years that will base your lump on a higher rate which also will lower the payout on top of the 3% reduction. If you are getting close to retirement please consult a finacial planner and don't take the company or union's word for it.

Here is another reason to worry about changing the age 60 rule.

This is due to a waiver under existing ERISA law which allows us a greater margin of contribution to "qualified" retirement plans, only because we have a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification (BFOQ) which mandates our retirement at Age 60. If you earn more than $170,000, the portion of your retirement ‘credits’ above that amount exceed the ERISA limits and are then considered "non-qualifying." Absent the BFOQ, the upper limit of your qualifying amounts would be reduced by 30 to 40 thousand dollars annually. Under the new tax law signed recently by Bush, these dollar amounts will increase, however that only serves to widen the gap bewteen the upper and lower limits of qualified vs. unqualified amounts. According to ALPA’s actuaries, they have estimated that the tax implications of this would reduce the retirement benefit of any Age 60 retiring pilot by 33% if the mandatory retirement age were raised just to 63. The effects are even worse if the limit is raised to 65. This is strictly due to the loss of the ERISA exemption for qualifying ($140,000) verses non-qualifying retirement monies up to the $170,000 income limit ($210,000 as of 12/31/01).

Simply stated, if Congress forces the FAA to change the Age 60 rule, we no longer have a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification upon which to base an exemption from ERISA limits to qualified retirement programs. No Age 60 Rule, no BFOQ. No BFOQ, retirement plan takes a 33% hit, increasing significantly as the higher limits kick in at the end of this year. Simple cause and effect. This isn't something that Congress will have to debate or have the opportunity to tinker with or be lobbied by ALPA's Legislative Affairs people. It will simply go away immediately with the introduction of any rule which lifts the Age 60 rule. Are you still ambivalent about changes to Age 60?

 

[SuperFLUF]

If someone retires at 60 and the rule is changed can they come back to work till 65??

Not as the bill is currently written. It specifically prohibits this unless they want to reapply and hire on as a new hire. (highly doubtful as its not about a love of flying or protecting the world from less experienced pilots, its just about the Benjamins)

 

[pkober]

Once the lawyers are done with the elections today they'lle start working with retired pilots demanding there jobs back. I heard Hoot called one already.

 

[whymeworry?]

Once the lawyers are done with the elections today they'lle start working with retired pilots demanding there jobs back. I heard Hoot called one already.

The "ME" generation continues to assert it's will on American society.