Closed pattern: Best time to turn X-wind?

[Horizon]

I was basically taught to climb up to pattern altitude before making the turn to crosswind.

Well, flying today, another pilot in the pattern told the tower that I was "long" as seemed a little pissed off about it.

Should I change my procedure? Is there perhaps a general rule of thumb concerning when it's best to turn crosswind?

Thanks.

 

[epic!]

thats the way i was taught, just sounds like that other pilot was a d!ck

 

[sqwkvfr]

I think the AIM suggests turning crosswind such that you reach pattern altitude upon turning downwind.

I find that 700' AGL works pretty well in most piston singles to accomplish this.

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I don't find too many people who wait until pattern altitude to turn crosswind.

Also, turning back to the runway in the event of an engine failure after flying upwind until TPA is impossible. I like to keep it a little closer to the runway in the event of a problem.

 

[oops!]

400' agl and the end of the runway... turn when you get both.... not an official rule but it's what I was taught

 

[LarryinTN]

AIM 4-3-3: "If remaining in the traffic pattern, commence turn to crosswind leg beyond the departure end of the runway within 300 feet of pattern altitude."

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap4/aim0403.html

Not trying to be rude but don't CFI's teach the AIM these days?

 

[Horizon]

400' agl and the end of the runway... turn when you get both.... not an official rule but it's what I was taught

So once you're 400' AGL you should level off and fly to the end of the runway...and only then resume climbing to TPA?

That seems strange...

 

[VNugget]

So once you're 400' AGL you should level off and fly to the end of the runway...and only then resume climbing to TPA?

That seems strange...

No, he means to turn when "both" have already happened.

 

[momalley81]

So once you're 400' AGL you should level off and fly to the end of the runway...and only then resume climbing to TPA?

That seems strange...

No, if you're flying off a runway short enough, or an airplane with enough balls, to make it to 400AGL before the end of the runway, keep the damned thing climbing until the other side then turn.

Seriously; how does someone get "lots and lots" of time and NOT figure this ******************** out? Seems I learned this ******************** before my mentor let me go on my own...

 

[Immelman]

I was taught 400-500' AGL. Do you really want to fly that far away from the airport (a decent place to land) before turning at all? Additionally, in congested areas it can be pretty annoying to be behind someone doing this when trying to knock out a few landings.

I once, and only once, cut someone off who did this (and I believe I was legal in doing that too, I announced my turn and this was all while climbing, so the 'lower traffic' rule on landing right of way did not apply). By the time he was finally midfield downwind I was landing again....yes, I keep the patterns tight. I'm just sayin....

 

[avbug]

The answer is it really depends on what you're doing. If you have nothing else to do and you can climb straight ahead to the pattern altitude or just below it, fine. In many cases, especially if you're at a busy place with fast traffic behind you, making a turn early to improve traffic efficiency is the order of the day. Or to avoid wake turbulence.

I fly some aircraft that will never go to 500' above the runway due to the type of operation...turns are made as soon as the flaps are retracted, often at 10' AGL and before the end of the runway, and I'll be at downwind below a hundred feet. Non typical, but normal for that kind of flying. Again, it really depends where you are and what you're doing.