Climbing to VFR-on-top

[JonJohn82]

I've never climbed to VFR-on-top to do maneuvers. Do I have to file an IFR flight plan to climb through and then cancel once I'm VFR-on-top and then refile in the air for an approach back into the airport? What exactly is the procedure?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[SiuDude]

VFR on Top

When you are flying on a VFR on Top clearance, you are an IFR aircraft flying under VFR and you must comply with both VFR and IFR rules. There is no need to cancel IFR. You simply get more freedoms when you ask the controller for a VFR on top clearance. However, let's say, if there is an active MOA in the way, the controller will vector you around the MOA. In that case, it wouldn't be a bad idea cancelling IFR, continue VFR to your destination, and then ask for a pop-up IFR clearance when it's time to descend.

 

[avbug]

I believe his question regarded an IFR departure to VFR on top to conduct training maneuvers.

You may file a flight plan, but you can also request an IFR departure to VFR-on-top. You'll be given initial instructions, with the addendum, "If not on top by XXX (altitude), then...". These instructions will be applicable if you don't reach the tops by the prescribed altitude. If you haven't filed a flight plan, at that point, the controller will give you additional directions which are typically climbing vectors to get you on top.

When you request the clearance, advise the controller that you plan to cancel, if that's your intent. It let's him or her know what to expect.

A typical use for an IFR climb to VFR-on-top (where you will likely be cancelling in this case) would be climbing out through a marine layer to continue the flight under VFR. I've done that many times on the west coast while working a fire; the climb out is IFR, due to the marine layer. But the fire isn't. I don't want to stay under IFR, as the job demands full attention. The controller assists by giving me a clearance to get me up out of the layer, with the understanding I'll be cancelling.

The reverse applies when coming back. Returning from a VFR flight, the destination is down due to weather. A pop-up clearance is obtained for the approach.

If this is your intent, consider the airspace. Very busy airspace may not want you doing this, coming, or going. You may be better off conducting the IFR departure onto an enroute structure away from the terminal area, before cancelling for your air work.

I've also done it the other way, doing training. File IFR, and conduct the entire flight, checkride, etc, under IFR within the terminal area, under a block altitude clearance. It works well, and is always best served when the controller is informed at the very start. Often when doing that type of training flight, including local air work and maneuvers under IFR or in IMC, I've simply filed, and given the controller a heads upon my intent when picking up the clearance.

 

[minitour]

...You may file a flight plan, but you can also request an IFR departure to VFR-on-top. You'll be given initial instructions, with the addendum, "If not on top by XXX (altitude), then...". These instructions will be applicable if you don't reach the tops by the prescribed altitude. If you haven't filed a flight plan, at that point, the controller will give you additional directions which are typically climbing vectors to get you on top....

However, just getting to the tops or popping out isn't VFR on top...you've still got to maintain your 1,000' Above the Clouds even though you're on an IFR flight plan/clearance, correct? Or...maybe I don't understand this clearance yet...

-mini

 

[JonJohn82]

So I don't really have to file at all? When I'm on the ramp, I can call up ground and get clearance for an IFR departure to VFR on top?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[midlifeflyer]

So I don't really have to file at all? When I'm on the ramp, I can call up ground and get clearance for an IFR departure to VFR on top?

That will depend on where you are. There are areas where ATC is so used to this that filing a flight plan in advance is probably not necessary. Sort of like the areas where flying a TEC route simply requires a call to ground or clearance delivery. But in other areas, I'd guess most, a formal flight plan will be required.

The best way to find out is to telephone your local TRACON, explain to them what you want to do and ask.

 

[Singlecoil]

However, just getting to the tops or popping out isn't VFR on top...you've still got to maintain your 1,000' Above the Clouds even though you're on an IFR flight plan/clearance, correct? Or...maybe I don't understand this clearance yet...

-mini

You're absolutely correct. Technically you need to wait until you are 1000 above before you cancel or or declare that you are "on top". You can also declare that you are "Vfr on Top" while still on the ground on a clear day. Depending on where you are, you can get released sooner because you have now stated that you will maintain your own traffic separation. Not all controllers play by those rules, however. Apparently its kind of a grey area for the ATC types. Salt Lake doesn't like to play ball, Seattle and Anchorage Centers do.

 

[DX Rick]

my $.02

So I don't really have to file at all? When I'm on the ramp, I can call up ground and get clearance for an IFR departure to VFR on top?

It's easiest just to file, and keep it open.

 

[JonJohn82]

It's easiest just to file, and keep it open.

And still do stalls, steep turns, chandelles, etc?

 

[seethru]

And still do stalls, steep turns, chandelles, etc?

You bet. As AvBug mentioned, request a block of airspace.

I used to request two radials off a navaid to remain between (i.e. between the 300 and 340 radial of the UBG VOR within 10 NM) and a couple of altitudes to define your floor and ceiling (i.e. between 4000 and 6000 feet).

Greg