"Cleared To Land"

[BradG]

When must you be either cleared to land, or given a sequence by? Is it only before you turn base, turn final, or before your wheels touch the runway. I always thought it was REQUIRED before you touched down, but i try not to turn final without it, but whats the official rule?

 

[chperplt]

In the airline world at busy airports, you may not hear those words until you are on very short final.

 

[tarp]

In the ATC handbook, the tower controller only has to keep 3,000 feet horizontally between a Category I airplane and another Cat I or Cat II aircraft. So he can bring you in very tight and then clear you to land as soon as the prior airplane is assured of either taxiing clear or going around.

A Category II aircraft has to have 4,500 feet of separation (from other aircraft). This applies to either landing or takeoff. And its 6,000 feet for the big boys unless wake turbulence becomes an issue.

I would suggest that you make that turn to final or the controllers are going to get very mad at you.

Read AIM 4-3-1

 

[Brother Francis]

No hard and fast rule here regarding the position of your aircraft in the traffic pattern. It depends on the local controller and when his criteria (as accurately stated above) allow the issuance of the landing clearance.

If you have not been issued a landing clearance by short final and no one is on the runway ahead of you, a friendly reminder "verify xxx is cleared to land?" should resolve the issue.

 

[JetPilot500]

When given an instruction by the tower to fly a traffic pattern or enter a pattern of some sort, you do so. There is no restrictions on turning final with or without a clearance. Use your head, if someone is in front of you landing on your runway or landing on a crossing runway, you will know why you may not have been cleared yet. If nothing is going on, you may query the controller.

If you do not turn final, where are you gonna go? You could create a conflict with other traffic depending on the airport you are at. That could be a dangerous thing. It is the controllers job to "sequence" aircraft for landing. Therefore, if he doesn't want you to turn final he'll give you an adjustment beforehand, such as, "Cessna 123, make a right 270 to join final." But again, use your head. If you see something potentially dangerous, let him know. Remember, it is your job to "see and avoid."

On a similar subject, it is legal for a controller to have you land on a runway when the aircraft in front of you has not cleared the runway yet. As tarp mentioned the controller needs to keep 3,000' of separation between aircraft. So as long as that separation exists, you can land, with a clearance of course.

JetPilot500

 

[burg]

Good Question

""On a similar subject, it is legal for a controller to have you land on a runway when the aircraft in front of you has not cleared the runway yet.""


I've often wondered about this. When your really tight exactly when do you have to GoAround.
Where does it say that you can touchdownwith another A/C on the runway.

Appreciate the info.

burg

 

[BoDEAN]

Brad: I believe it is prior to your wheels making contact with the ground. I have been about 10-15 ft above the runway, before I finally hear "Seneca XXX cleared to land." Sometimes I will say "Seneca XXX short final" if I have not been told the magic words "Cleared to land.'"

Hope this helps

 

[BradG]

Regarding the 3000ft seperation, who's responsibility is it to maintain that? The controllers? or yours? At a largers airport, it would be kinda tough to determine where 3000ft is, especially if your unfamiliar. If i touch down and the other airplane is only 2000ft down, who's in trouble? Me or the guy in the tower?

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

I once had an interesting encounter with some controllers over a clearance to land. I was participating in an exercise involving about 30 other jets and was near the back of the recovery train. One of the jets in front of me took the cable and closed the runway. Unfortunately for me and everyone behind me, we didn't have the gas to hold until they cleared the runway so we had to divert to the local international airport. The controllers there were not used to us landing at their airport. Every once in a while a couple jets will divert into there but not 10 all at the same time. They didn't want us flying up initial so we flew a visual straight in using our own separation rules. As I was cruising down final, the controller was concerned that I was only a mile behind the dude in front of me. I was thinking that I only need to land 3,000 feet behind him regardless if he is still on the runway. But since the controller was making a stink about it, I figured, I'd use 6,000 feet and not to mention that his "1 mile and closing" translated to 1.4 miles and a closure of 10 knots on my radar. Once he landed, I was over the approach lights and the controller said "aircraft short final, go around, aircraft on runway." Looking at my gas, I was about a beer above emergency fuel so I said "unable" and landed anyway and then directed my wingman to land as well. Needless to say, the controller wasn't all that happy with me and gave me his phone number and acted like it was the last time I would ever fly an airplane. I never called the guy but he did violate my callsign which was placed in the "noted" file in the wing safety office along with the dozen or so the FAA whines about each week.

I wouldn't recommend landing without clearance, especially a civilian pilot, but sometimes you just have to ask yourself what the safest option is. I could have gone around, declared an emergency and knocked everyone else off their approach which probably would have forced them to declare an emergency or I could just land with double the separation my own rules dictate and upset the controller.

 

[Brother Francis]

Rush Limbaugh wrote: "I wouldn't recommend landing without clearance, especially a civilian pilot, but sometimes you just have to ask yourself what the safest option is."

91.3 (a), (b)