Cleared for Take Off or is it Departure??

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I've heard that only the Tower controller should use the words 'take-off' and pilots should read back "departure". In addition the tower controller should only use take off when issuing the actual clearance. For example; a twr controller shall use 'departure' if he/she transmits "American 123 hold short rnwy 30 for departure"

It's getting into the details.....

Anyone have any background or references? (The Controller handbook has a little bit of reference.... ICAO might have info too)

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

The 'local' controller will issue the takeoff clearance, MOST competent pilots will read back exactly that in addition to an assigned heading. He will NOT say cleared for departure. Notice also the word 'cleared'. The tower controller will be the ONLY one who says that, and then only twice, "cleared for takeoff" and "cleared to land". When you are inbetween runways waiting to cross the departure runway (ATL) you remain twr frequency. When he DOES have you cross the dept runway, the phraseology is "XYZ212, CROSS 27R, join LIMA, contact gnd .75". He DOES NOT use the words 'cleared to cross' or 'you are clear to cross'. The reason came from the Tenereife disaster. The controller asked Pan Am to report 'clear' after back-taxiing. Van Zanten in KLM heard that and said "Okay, lets go" to the rest of the crew. The FO had a chance to save it by questioning the captain by saying 'Is he not clear, the Pan Am?' Captain, who was in a BIG hurry responded with 'Oh yes, he is clear'. MISUNDERSTOOD communication can have real consequence's.
Always a laugh listening to the 'professionals' read back the crossing instructions....'DEf132, cleared to cross 27R' Wrong, he didn't "clear" you at all. He issued a crossing instruction.
When I started as a controller, the .65 handbook was less than an inch thick. When I left in 2000 it was probably about 2 1/2. Almost every aircraft accident will have the FAA issuing some kind of revision. Reason? Lawyers for the victims will try to blame the FAA first, pilots and aircraft manufacturers next and right on down the line.

I am sure some of the current ATC folks can elaborate even more.

 

[350DRIVER]

cleared ta go we're rollin.


3 5 0

 

[A Squared]

Not that it proves anything one way or another, but the KLM-PanAm crash in Tenerife was due in part to the captain interpreting the controller's issuance of *departure* instructions as a takeoff clearence.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Yes he did misunderstand that, and a few seconds later the tower said "Standby for takeoff, I will call you" The immediate next transmission was from the Pan Am F/O, "and we are still taxiing down the runway, the clipper 1736" TWR, "roger alpha 1736, report when runway clear" PAA1736, "roger, will report when runway clear". The KLM F/O then said "Is he not clear then?" Capt, "what did you say?" F/O, "Is he not clear that Pan American?" Capt "Oh yes!" (emphatically)
15 seconds later, collision.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Takeoff

TAKEOFF. TAKEOFF. TAKEOFF. I don't know why people always use, "Tower, Cessna 123 ready for departure." "Departure" is only used when tower says, "Cessna 123 contact depature." For some reason lots of new pilots thinks it sounds professional and cool to say ready for departure but it's "ready for takeoff." You are cleared for TAKEOFF.

 

[CDVdriver]

I could not DISAGREE more,

TWR initiates the use of the word "take-off",
pilot is supposed to say "ready for departure" and "cleared for take-off".
Holy moly here we go again this is going to go to 25 pages and 1 million replies now....



Only thing I've found so far on page 575 2004 AIM 4-3-10(c) example..."ready for departure.."

 

[KigAir]

I have heard the tower controllers at my airport chastise people for saying "ready for takeoff". I understand this about as much as the "with you" thread.

 

[80/20]

Rez O. Lewshun

Anyone have any background or references? (The Controller handbook has a little bit of reference.... ICAO might have info too)

ICAO Communications Procedures:


1 TAKE-OFF – these words are only used when an aircraft is cleared for TAKEOFF.

2 TAKE-OFF clearance requires readback.

3 Use of CLEAR is restricted to:

i)ATC clearances.

ii)Departure and Approach instructions.

iii)Take-off and landing clearances.

 

[Kenny]

Got to agree with CDVdriver.

The words "Take-Off" should only ever be used by the tower when you are cleared for take-off and then by the appropriate aircraft that it is cleared.

When informing the tower that you are ready, the word departure is used to avoid any confusion and aircraft taking an active runway when not cleared.

It goes back to the recommendations that came about after the Tenerife accident according to a family friend that is an Air Accident investigator with the FAA

The only place I've ever heard pilots say ready for take-off is by the Riddle-Rats in DAB.

 

[Brett Hull]

Does anyone else cringe when you hear someone who's (hopefully) still on the taxiway call "Tower, N12345 is ready "ON" runway 32".

 

[DenverDude2002]

Does anyone else cringe when you hear someone who's (hopefully) still on the taxiway call "Tower, N12345 is ready "ON" runway 32".

Only if they got a position and hold clearance from ATC

 

[Vector4fun]

The .65 doesn't really talk about what pilots should say, only what controllers should say.

3-9-9. TAKEOFF CLEARANCE​

a. When only one runway is active, issue takeoff clearance.

PHRASEOLOGY-​

CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF.

NOTE-​

Turbine-powered aircraft may be considered ready for takeoff when they reach the runway unless they advise otherwise.

(Personal note, not lately....)​

​

[size=-2]REFERENCE-

FAAO 7110.65, Departure Terminology, Para 4-3-1.[/size]

​

b. When more than one runway is active, first state the runway number followed by the takeoff clearance. ​

PHRASEOLOGY-​

RUNWAY (number), CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF.

EXAMPLE-​

"RUNWAY TWO SEVEN, CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF."


​

My personal pet peeve when working in the tower or in approach is pilots not listening before they key the mike. Way too many blocked transmissions.


Always identify yourself when acknowledging or requesting a clearance, and always state your position clearly and accurately.

"Cessna 1VK is ready to go"

vs

"Skyhawk 101VK is ready for departure runway 17 Left at intersection Golf."



Also, for the RJ drivers. Listen, it's getting kind of confusing keeping track of who is who. Crew says "Skywest" or "Shuttle", I'm not sure who's colors you're wearing any more. And then there's the ever-present all-white RJ. Let's be careful out there.......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here is the reference and why I never say take off. While this is an FAA controller reference, it is a pilot technique to use....

4-3-1. DEPARTURE TERMINOLOGY​

Avoid using the term "takeoff" except to actually clear an aircraft for takeoff or to cancel a takeoff clearance. Use such terms as "depart," "departure," or "fly" in clearances when necessary.​

[size=-2]REFERENCE-​

FAAO 7110.65, Takeoff Clearance, Para 3-9-9.
FAAO 7110.65, Cancellation of Takeoff Clearance, Para 3-9-10.[/size]

 

[Singlecoil]

Hmmm. I always readback, "<callsign>, cleared for takeoff". I see nothing in the AIM that says this is not a wise procedure. My pet peeve is the use of "on the go" which sounds a lot like "on and hold", which a lot of pilots use as well. I read back, "<callsign>, position and hold" for that reason as well.I've never been challenged on that procedure by numerous FAA inspectors, check airmen, or controllers.