Clearance limit

[manic66]

Situation.

Cleared to Boise Seattle 3 departure as filed

once airborne clearance is received direct Boise
Do I proceed to the airport or to the Boise VOR?

Please reference with AIM I cant find it.

(Clarifying with ATC has given me both answers so I'd like to find the AIM reference for this)

M

 

[regionalcap]

I don't have the plates for that part of the country, but I would say direct to the VOR. I wouldn't think you could accept an IFR clearance direct to an airport without GPS capability. Sometimes we are cleared visually to an airport but we would have to maintain VFR conditions. My opinion, go direct to the VOR. Sorry I don't have the FAR/AIM handy.

 

[manic66]

Hmmm ok
The airplane has dual FMS and we are authorized to use it in class I airspace.
Still looking in the AIM


M

 

[flydog]

Cleared direct Boise as filed. That doesnt sound like direct the VOR or the airport unless thats how you filed. I would fly what you filed after the departure. I dont see any clearance limit

Did I miss something?

 

[MarineKC130]

The controller wouldn't say "direct as filed." This would be a complete contradiction. I think from looking at the original post, he was cleared direct Boise. I believe that this would mean direct the NAVAID. Generally you are cleared to the navaid or IAF serving an approach at the field so that if you go IMC and lost comm, you can commence the approach at your clearance limit IAW lost comm procedures. Direct the airport would be of no use to you or ATC in such a situation. I found this in the PCG:

DIRECT- Straight line flight between two navigational aids, fixes, points, or any combination thereof. When used by pilots in describing off-airway routes, points defining direct route segments become compulsory reporting points unless the aircraft is under radar contact.

This is pretty vague, but I would think that they are looking for navaids or route structure, etc, not geograpic points such as airports or visual landmarks. Also, I think they would clear you direct "Boise airport" if that is where they want you to go.

Here's an example out of the FAA ATC Order:

Cessna 21A has been cleared to the Airville Airport via V41 Delta VOR V174 Alfa VOR, direct Airville Airport, maintain 9000.

Note the "direct Airville Airport" wording. In looking through the pubs, I can't find anything really black and white, but in all the sections about direct routing, only fixes and navaids are discusses. There's nothing about airports, etc. All the pubs are available on the FAA website, which is really nice, esp for looking at the ATC pubs. The address for the atc pubs is below.

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/

 

[manic66]

Well I would still like to get the wrtten reference since I have gotten either direct the VOR or direct the airport as an answer.

As always I did ask ATC what they wanted and they have given me either answer as well.

I agree with the FAF theory, you need a place to start the approach. But also I have read some where (still trying to find it) that when You are cleared to an airport and become lostcomm that You are allowed to fly to the airport and pick a FAF of your choice and fly an approach of your choice.

To clarify the situation on what I was filed for KSEA.SEA V4.BOI.KBOI
And clearance to BOI Seasttle3 departure As filed.

Climbing out of 15000 ATC clears me "direct Boise"

The VOR is only a few miles of the field so it wont matter that much which I pick, but I'd still like to know and I need specific reference.

Also for reference I can accept a clearance direct to the airport with my onboard equipment.

Certain airports Butte (KBTM) and lewiston KLWS does not have a VOR on the field or nearby with the same name. There for in that case the airport is the only thing in my clearance, so that will be my destination.

Confused yet?

I am

M

 

[PHX767]

This comes up a lot flying all nighters to the East Coast.

The controller says, "Cleared direct Orlando." I ask, "Is that the VOR or the airport?"

Sometimes they will come back with "Cleared direct destination", other times, "uhhh, the VOR", or "yeah, uhh the airport." They have no standard, so ask.

At a lot of those destinations it's all academic as they will put you back on the STAR anyway when you get closer. But for less busy destinations, you can get direct the airport until close enough to take a visual or an IAP. For instance, you can get direct to Jackson Hole, but you have to go to the VOR (I forget the name) anyway to do the approach.

What do you do for IFR lost comm? If your last clearance is to the airport, how do you get established on an approach? That's why I feel more comfortable going to the VOR, if it is an IAF. If not, ask for a fix on the approach.

 

[manic66]

Lost comm cleared to the airport I would fly to a FAF on my favorite approach and then fly the appproach, land and do all the checklists and then call maintainence and ATC.

m(Still looking for printed matter ond the question)

 

[MTOP_set]

This comes under the heading of know what you are asking for. Know your destination weather. Know what the approach options are. Know the relation of the navaid to the airport and available approaches. Then when you get a direct clearamce, get the verification of the destination that "you" want. If the weather is good for example and you anticipate a visual approach, ask to go to the airport. If in doubt, ask to go to the navaid, or even the IAF if you are able and it is something other than a VOR (an intersection or fix). With the proliferation of improved nav systems there will be more and more direct routings. Ask for what you want, know what you are asking for.

 

[manic66]

All I am asking for is a printed reference for this.

I know what I need to do "ask" but I want a reference.