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Classic Associate unit? Is it as bad as it sounds?

hindsight2020

Yeah Buddy
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
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235
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23:41Z
Did a search and only came up with discussions about active associate units. Any Guard/Reserve bubbas gone through the transition to a classic associate? The TFI sh$t sandwich has finally knocked on my door and it smells rancid from where I sit, so I'm trying to get a feel from those BTDT about the matter......

So far I hear it's pretty much what it looks like on paper. AD rules, AD bullsh$t, less flying, sh%tty MX, and OBVIOUSLY less pay than the AD dude, swell.....do more with less for the part-timer/bum basically. From my conversations bullsh5ting around with the bra's the F-22 dudes in one f%ckin hate it, and the only reason the Missouri Eagle-turned-B2 guys aren't piping up is cause they all got AGRs to keep happy and that's the only reason that one works. The rest I hear is working like a botched abortion. I like the idea of AGRs for all but we got squashed on that proposal so far, f'ing standard blue for the heavy guys...... Feel free to dispell or add on to these ideas and sentiments if you happen to have some insight into the classic associate experience.

All I see right now is a bunch of people punching left and right of me and it's making me nervous, the thing hasn't even come down and folks are bailing, maybe they know what I'm trying to rationalize away, or maybe it won't be as bad. Any war stories on the matter is greatly appreciated. I'd hate to have to put my family through the hardship of a forced move with a happy working wife but I didn't sign up to be AD fodder for half the pay; coming home f%ckin miserable and pissed all day won't make my marriage a lasting one. Again, appreciate any insight.
 

RedDogC130

Well-known member
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Jan 6, 2005
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enough
what airframe are you flying...not that I have anything to help you out just curious was you are in
 

bagasticks

fist fornicator
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Posts
190
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>1
AD rules? some
AD bullsheet? some
AD maintenance? some
less hours? not usually

it all depends on the people. .they are what makes any unit bad or good. I would describe it as at times, inconvenient. still a job flying jets thats pays pretty well, allows me to travel the world and will be there through crappy state of affairs on the civvie side.

suppose it depends on the airframe too, i speak of gas-wagons. .
 

3ds

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Feb 20, 2007
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It's up to your leadership. Will they stand up to the AD when the AD tries to take over? Or will they say, in essence, "we really need to help the guys out, just this one time...."

Pm if you want more details, our unit is working through the second year of a TFI integration.
 

airgator

FUBIJAR
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Dec 19, 2001
Posts
367
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3.14
I am in an associate reserve unit and I prefer it for one reason: no mandatory days. I don't know what goes on at UTA's because I haven't been to one in a couple years. I can come in any day I want, do a RUTA or TP or whatever, get my ground training stuff done and bolt. As far as AD bs, I think that is totally squadron specific. You will find unit equipped and associate squadrons at both ends of the spectrum. In the C-5 world, unit equipped units definitely get better trips but that is because of different capabilities so that's more aircraft specific. As far as MX, it definitely sucks but I've never seen it any other way.
 

AlbieF15

F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
1,764
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I did F-15 associate unit flying from 2002-2007 at Tyndall, and retired officially in 2008.

Overall--I thought it was an absolutely outstanding opportunity as a part time guy. Your situation may be very different, so I guess you'd have to do some due diligence.

If you want to discuss the issue, send your info (phone, etc) to emeraldinterview@aol.com and or call me at the contact number on my web link there and I'll give you my two cents.
 

PreContact

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KC-10 reserve associate is pretty good at McGuire. Plenty of AD available, and having the AD there helps with options for maintaining ground currencies. But it probably does come down to squadron specifics.
 

talondriver

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In AETC there was resistance to the associate concept mainly because the AD Sq/CCs were losing one active duty guy for every three TRs the reserves had AND they didn't have admin control of any reservist AGR or TR. They (AD Sq/CC) did have operational control of the reservists when it pertained to training and flying. The thing that bugged me the most (i was an AGR in the program) was regardless of the massive amounts of experience the reservist brought to the fight (some have been at their respective units for over ten years!), you still had active guys who showed no love.
 

hindsight2020

Yeah Buddy
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Posts
235
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23:41Z
Alright folks, thread revival time

It's been a year and change since I posted originally about this topic and I'm afraid things have not gone very well at all with our classic integration. Lots of people punched out and many still sitting on 20 year letters going 'eff this in short order'. Every other week is a threat to make primary UTA dates mandatory. Everybody is playing Bill Clinton's "depends on what the definition 'is' is" when it comes to submitting their monthly availability, particularly when it comes to flying with the AD. It's painful. And we still got no MOU signed.

At any rate, in the interest of hearing about classic associates whose members are more or less content with their set up, could we hear about some of the constructs that are making your classic associate work or not work?

I've heard that some associates in the tanker/airlift world are given iron by their AD "parents" in a "your jet for a day" fashion, and the reservists ensure they schedule, staff and fly that jet to the best interest of their Reservists crews, in consideration of their parceled availability and the way Reservists have been accustomed at doing the day-to-day on fly day pre-TFI. Is this true? We've haven't had the benefit of such a construct in our association.

Our classic association has been yoked with an unresponsive AD parent leadership that has given no allowance to flying or working in any way that resembled the Reserve way of yesterday. Sortie durations are about double what ours were. They [AD] need long durations because their mx sucks and can't generate sorties, so the ones that get airborne better fly around the world and back to put hours on the book and get their budget for next FY. Reservists are unwilling, many outright incapable of doing this, due to civilian job schedule woes, but AD has bigger fish to fry, so it gets kicked down the road. We have no ownership of any lines, we get fed in a "here's what I got this month, fill the gaps I have in my schedule if you can, otherwise see ya next month" fashion, it's pointless.

It's also pointless to keep getting compared to fighter TFI organizations, where everything from the culture, ASD, number of crews per jet, brief-fly-debriefs, in Reserve fighter units were much more congruent with their AD peers pre-TFI than our cultural differences with the AD pre-TFI. But since we were ACC-assignable assets and most of the other heavies were AMC, we haven't had an opportunity of incorporating ideas that may or may not be working in KC-10/-135/C-5/17 associations when F-16/A-10 TFI comparisons are the only benchmarks that may be flowing into the discussion at the NAF level.

Any feedback on what makes your association work is appreciated. I'm sure there are things we could bring about to leadership to make this change a little more attractive, rather than just make a white flag with the words "part-time Active duty" and close the doors on the Guard/Reserves and go home.
 
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