CJC1 makes way from YYZ to HEF 01/08/08

[OnTheRocks]

Wow, this is like fighting over the fat chick

 

[Smarta$$]

Your company did not buy them for us you Pinnacle retard Continental foot the tab on all of them. Move over with your rj because this turbo prop will run your mocho attitude over along with that fancy jet

You have no idea what you are talking about. CO did NOT buy the AC. Pinnacle airlines bought them.

 

[OnTheRocks]

dork fight

 

[DoinTime]

Last time I checked my company bought them too, seeing how we work under the same holding company! Get over it, an airplane is and airplane no matter how big and what make is go.

Follow the money toolbox. Pinnacle corp did not just sprout money out of their butts to buy your airline then turn around and buy you airplanes. All of the cash that Corp had to do these wonderful things at Colgan was pilfered from the profits earned by the employees of Pinnacle Airlines.

A grievance decision that may force the merger of our two seniority lists is still pending.

 

[Striptyler]

A grievance decision that may force the merger of our two seniority lists is still pending.

yeeaaahhh... riiight. Good luck with that. Colgan being non alpa and all... Prob. would be alpa if the 9e TOOLBOXES hadn't scared the 9L pilots away :\

Share holders won't get any returns from paying 9E guys more, so they won't. They will get returns from q400's flown cheap. Stop bitching at the colgan pilots. They didn't ask for it, and when you strike, honestly, most of them won't feel bad when 9E closes up, let alone have any desire to help out.

 

[WSurf]

yeeaaahhh... riiight. Good luck with that. Colgan being non alpa and all... Prob. would be alpa if the 9e TOOLBOXES hadn't scared the 9L pilots away :\

Share holders won't get any returns from paying 9E guys more, so they won't. They will get returns from q400's flown cheap. Stop bitching at the colgan pilots. They didn't ask for it, and when you strike, honestly, most of them won't feel bad when 9E closes up, let alone have any desire to help out.

Boy this is sad! I guess first management usee RJ's to lower the pay of pilots. Now since the tables are turning towards better pay they are gonna use Large Props to bring the industry down.

Colgan folks...... Grow a pair!

 

[Striptyler]

If you break the numbers down, of the total pilots that could vote for the union, a very large percentage had been with the company for less than 6 months. They had yet to experience the "fun" that it can be sometimes. I am sure that the drive will do better if the company refuses to change, and age 65 slows down attrition enough to keep some people around.

Personaly, i think for a first drive, it went well. I know the 1900 drivers fought for it.

 

[johnsonrod]

Boy this is sad! I guess first management usee RJ's to lower the pay of pilots. Now since the tables are turning towards better pay they are gonna use Large Props to bring the industry down.

Colgan folks...... Grow a pair!

The problem is that people tend to not stay long enough to impact change... You don't find many old-timers at Colgan - it is a revolving door...

 

[DoinTime]

yeeaaahhh... riiight. Good luck with that. Colgan being non alpa and all... Prob. would be alpa if the 9e TOOLBOXES hadn't scared the 9L pilots away :\

Scared you away? You mean warn you? If the legal system finds that Pinnacle Corp is in fact a successor to Pinnacle Inc (which is obvious to anyone who works at Pinnacle) our contract will force a merger. Whether anyone likes it or not.

IMO this is very likely to happen.

Share holders won't get any returns from paying 9E guys more, so they won't. They will get returns from q400's flown cheap.

Shareholders will require the largest return on their investment. Allowing PCL management to drive the airline into a strike and liquidation would cost the shareholders over $350 million. Considering that you can buy the entire pilot group for six years at that price thats a poor business decision.

Unlike your pilot group we don't just accept whatever they feel like paying us.

They didn't ask for it, and when you strike, honestly, most of them won't feel bad when 9E closes up, let alone have any desire to help out.

What will you do when they tell you to fly our struck work? Good luck in the rest of your career being a scab.

 

[Visceral]

The problem at Colgan is that quite a few pilots who stay for the long term appear to be anti-union. I hate being lumped in with the no voters, but that is what has happened to nearly half of us. Striptyler does not speak for us all I assure you. I have no idea how a strike at 9E would affect 9L. Just know we can barely fly the crap we do.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

The problem at Colgan is that quite a few pilots who stay for the long term appear to be anti-union. I hate being lumped in with the no voters, but that is what has happened to nearly half of us. Striptyler does not speak for us all I assure you. I have no idea how a strike at 9E would affect 9L. Just know we can barely fly the crap we do.

I know I'd start my own personal "Fly Safe" campaign. I'd encourage EVERYONE at 9L to do the same. After all, we're all going to get the same contract if/when we get merged onto one list. There should be AT LEAST 49.9% of 9L pilots ready and willing to bump the safety factor up should a strike occur. I know I'll walk the line with my step-brothers.

Shy

 

[jc3]

yeeaaahhh... riiight. Good luck with that. Colgan being non alpa and all... Prob. would be alpa if the 9e TOOLBOXES hadn't scared the 9L pilots away :\

Share holders won't get any returns from paying 9E guys more, so they won't. They will get returns from q400's flown cheap. Stop bitching at the colgan pilots. They didn't ask for it, and when you strike, honestly, most of them won't feel bad when 9E closes up, let alone have any desire to help out.

So you want us to strike, NICE!!! Your an a$$!!

 

[Striptyler]

So you want us to strike, NICE!!! Your an a$$!!

No, i want you to get your contract. I also want 9e pilots to understand that the 9L guys wanted no part of this. The general attitude of most 9E pilots towards the colgan group is crap. I, and anybody i fly with would refuse an airplane painted red and gray under the NWA banner.

"warning" pilots of a staple job? That wouldn't make me want join a similar union.

Yes the Q rates suck. On the list i saw, only 60 or so pilots bid it. They run out of pilots to staff it in april. The FO's got a pay raise last year. Thats a start.

Falls along the line, if you want us to stand with you, then treat us with respect, You are already fighting the company, and have no need to be fighting us. When i came to 9l, we were in our own corner of the world, filling a niche' market in the north east. Pay sucked, but i was home with wife n kids on a nightly basis. This was my QOL. I had intentions to leave when i hit 3000/1000. just never got around to it. Once Pinnacle bought Colgan, the game changed. I thought that alone would align the pilot group enough to pass a vote. It didn't. 4-6 month wonders, still greatfull to have a job arn't going to vote yes, let alone vote. Had the majority of the 9E pilots been on the forums saying, hey, look this is what managment did to us, rather than " were gonna merge sen. lists. or , Q belongs to us under scope" we may have gotten then extra 4 votes.


I'd stand with the 9e guys now, just because i know it would happen to us next. Not because i respect them yet. - maybe they should work on changing the latter part.

 

[Mr Wu]

With the one year anniversary of the start of the ALPA drive just around the corner, maybe you guys could show a bit of solidarity and work together to get what both groups want.

Just a thought.

 

[Striptyler]

With the one year anniversary of the start of the ALPA drive just around the corner, maybe you guys could show a bit of solidarity and work together to get what both groups want.

Just a thought.

Exactly

 

[Smarta$$]

Exactly

I don't have any respect for you. You refuse to recognize that the money to buy your airline and all your pretty new airplanes came directly from the hard work of the pinnacle pilots. Pinnacle Corp. is in violation of our scope agreement. You will see this in the rulling that was do almost three months ago. It is very clear to every one that the purchase of your airline was just another example of our VERY hostile management trying to destroy our union and our job security. Your airline, being dirt cheap, with dirt cheap labor and having employees with no desire to stand up for themselves against CJC/pinnacle management made them an ideal target. This will backfire soon.

You and 51% of your selfish pilots have done nothing to help us in our fight. This will not be forgotten when we negotiate a solution to our scope greivance. The arbitrators rulling overrides anything that our shareholders or management has to say.

I can't wait.

 

[Godfather]

What a difference a year makes.....

I don't have any respect for you. You refuse to recognize that the money to buy your airline and all your pretty new airplanes came directly from the hard work of the pinnacle pilots. Pinnacle Corp. is in violation of our scope agreement. You will see this in the rulling that was do almost three months ago. It is very clear to every one that the purchase of your airline was just another example of our VERY hostile management trying to destroy our union and our job security. Your airline, being dirt cheap, with dirt cheap labor and having employees with no desire to stand up for themselves against CJC/pinnacle management made them an ideal target. This will backfire soon.

You and 51% of your selfish pilots have done nothing to help us in our fight. This will not be forgotten when we negotiate a solution to our scope greivance. The arbitrators rulling overrides anything that our shareholders or management has to say.

I can't wait.

AMEN!!!! Could not agree more. This is something that the Colgan ALPA Organizing Committee saw when all this started a year ago. The goal was for the Colgan Pilots to have a voice in the new company's future and to create a mutual "courtship" with both ALPA and the PCL Pilot Group so that when this day came, we could work together to prevent the next chapter of "How to kill the Airline Industry by Frank Lorenzo"

Remember last year at this time when the Colgan Purchase was announced? I do... I was here to witness the fore-bodings that the PCL pilots warned us of...

Now a year later, look at the mess created....

Who do we blame? I guess everyone and no one at the same time. My question is this to Uncle Phil...What will you do when the PCL Pilots strike and you can't find no one to fly your shiny jets? Move all PCL flying to Colgan? You are just another Frank Lorenzo if you do...and I'm calling you out!

It started with 155 pilots who didn't have the brass to take the right stand. The snow ball kept rolling when ALPA tucked tail and ran after it lost the Colgan vote. Now it will end with the inevitable and long overdue shakedown and possible shutdown of the regional airline industry as we know it today.

This will be the last stand at the Alamo for the entire industry and Sam Houston won't be making it in time to save the fort once again. Funny how life moves in cycles. This has happened before and it will happen again.

In the words of Jack Nicholson playing Jack Torrance from the Shining, "Words of wisdom, Floyd, Words of wisdom."

 

[Striptyler]

I don't have any respect for you. You refuse to recognize that the money to buy your airline and all your pretty new airplanes came directly from the hard work of the pinnacle pilots. Pinnacle Corp. is in violation of our scope agreement. You will see this in the rulling that was do almost three months ago. It is very clear to every one that the purchase of your airline was just another example of our VERY hostile management trying to destroy our union and our job security. Your airline, being dirt cheap, with dirt cheap labor and having employees with no desire to stand up for themselves against CJC/pinnacle management made them an ideal target. This will backfire soon.

You and 51% of your selfish pilots have done nothing to help us in our fight. This will not be forgotten when we negotiate a solution to our scope greivance. The arbitrators rulling overrides anything that our shareholders or management has to say.

I can't wait.

Where did i say a word about money? U also know nothing about 9L. It's all fine. The lack of respect is mutual. before 9l, i doubt anybody at (e would have had any desire to fly the 400. Rather than work with us, for the most part all the 9l people got was flak from the 9e people.

If you can show me a single pilot at cjc that "wanted" your "money" or your airplanes i'd laugh. Hardly anybody is bidding that plane, most b/c they are getting forced out of their current equipment.

even with your scope, u really don't want the airplane. your just trying to use that as leverage in negotiations.

THE ONLY point i have tried to make, is stop giving us crap if you want us with u. What makes me greedy? I voted yes. I said i wouldn't fly your flights. I wish i had no dog in this fight. i laugh at the CPG. yet, rather than actually chatting with us out on the line, attending alpa functions, and trying to work with us, u "don't respect us" If you ever came and sat in a food court at bos, lga, dca. you would prob. change your mind.

we are not your enemy., but if you tell me to f-off, i'm gonna tell you to go get bent. But hey, i got my time. I can move on with ease, "This will not be forgotten when we negotiate a solution to our scope greivance." when im there i won't forget either. Karma works... u wouldn't want to be facing an ex-colganite at your next interview would u?


The larger flying was in the 9l contract with CAL. It has been in there for a long time. 9L couldn't afford to pick up the airframes required. 9L was sold with all managment staying in place to fund these airplanes. CAL would not flip the bill. In the ideal world, 9e would see the benefits from colgan. Multiple code shares, and revenue. Unfortunatly, that won't benefit you the pilot. Guess what, i don't get anything out of this either. i didn't get a pay raise from phil. I didn't even get a gold star to stick on my lunch box. Colgan pilots won't be taking your flying. If i meet any who do, it will be time for an improtu union meet behind the terminal. I don't think the 9l purchase was to destroy your union. From what i have seen of 9e managment, i don't think they care about your union. They certanly don't respect it right now. Rather then telling us what revenge you have planned for 9l pilots, wouldn't it make more sence to try to get them under a contract as well, one that wouldn't allow Pinnacle to move flying between 9E/L? One that would ensure the "jets" stay there, and the props stay here?


Just lay off it man, don't worry, were not gunning for you.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
First of all, let's back away from the ad hominem attacks. Doing this completely diminishes the ability to have any kind of constructive discourse. Second, anyone at CJC and PNCL would readly admit the truth about both airlines. Both are bottom-feeders. Always have been and always will be, and the only major difference is one carrier has ALPA and the other doesn't. I can see the frustration coming from the PNCL folks as being quite real and well-founded. You guys have been putting up with alot of stonewalling from your managment. Throw in the purchase of CJC and you have a recipe for real animosity. Unfortunately, this is being mis-directed, but it easy to take issue with the CJC pilots and "blame" them for some of PNCL's pilot group problems. Anyone with half a brain can see that CJC and it's pilots aren't your nemisis. WE have just a little control as you do, union or no union. 99% of the pilots here are just like you. We just work here, and thats the bottom line. "Grow a pair", "Stand-up for yourselves", "You are leading the race to the bottom" kind of rhetoric isn't serving any constructive cause.
I hope that you can get a contract, and a good one. You certainly deserve it, especially the guys and gals that have been there for a number of years. Industry dynamics, rising fuel costs and politics are going to make 2008 a very volitile year in the regional industry. Even with the "pilot shortage", leverage isn't with the pilots and I wouldn't be surprised to see some consolidation, bankruptcy and furloughs at the regionals.
Best of luck to all the PNCL and CJC pilots this year...

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Grey Ghost]

Your airline COULD NOT AFFORD TO BUY Q400s until pinnacle bought you.

I am sure your many hours of working at Pinch Nikle help buys those with your 200 hours total in the barbie jet. Doesn't the Q have more seats then the RJ just wondering.....