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Civil Air Patrol

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dot_AK
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Dot_AK

eyeing IFR
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Posts
37
ok, this one has prolly come up before, but please answer again.

I'm contemplating joining the CAP, and I want to know if there are any members out there, and hear people's opinions on it. Sure, the website has information, but what's it really like? How well do you get along? What do you do, on a mission?
 
Well for our local branch... Its a bunch of blowhard grumpy old guys that would sooner die before letting anyone else fly the airplane. If you are looking for a place to fly then I'd advise against it. If you are looking to hear war stories from a grumpy old guy then join!
 
CAP

I was a CAP member for something like seven years. My experience was mostly positive. I gained flight time and experience and honed my skills. That was a major plus. Where I believe I derived a greater benefit was from the learning and personal development opportunities, and the fellowship.

CAP has the Senior Member Training Program which requires you to complete a number of personal development and leadership courses to progress in the organization. Many of the courses are written by the USAF at Maxwell AFB in Alabama, the home of CAP. These courses are similar, I'm sure, to the Air University courses that AF people must take to advance in their careers. People will scoff at these courses as being so much hooey, but they are not if you apply yourself. There is some real learning to be obtained.

The quality of fellowship depends on the unit. Larry is not wrong. Quite a few CAP squadrons are run that way - the aircraft become a personal empire for the guys he describes. But, in our squadron, we wanted the aircraft to be flown, and welcomed new pilots. Proficiency flying was not free and was heavily supervised, but the rental was far lower than FBOs. Our philosophy was the more the aircraft were flown the easier it was to keep them maintained. We also benefited from leadership that was devoted to running the unit professionally, and, for the most part, it was. We were friends with Wing Staff, which made a difference in accomplishing our goals. Moreover, many of our members were FAA people from the Mike Monroney Center in Oklahoma City. Yes, one was a fed, but he made a positive imprint on the flying program from which I personally benefited in terms of training.

I saw some of what Larry is talking about when I joined Arizona Wing. Our squadron was really an apathetic unit consisting primarily of retirees. It very much lacked the professionalism of my OKC unit. The wife of the Wing Commander was really the power behind the throne. The long and short of it was the organization was extremely political and was nothing like the CAP I knew.

The missions depend on their purpose. You might be called out in the middle of the night to fetch the ELT locator receiver and drive to the local airport to find it and shut it down. You might be called out on a SARCAP to locate a missing aircraft. You practice search techniques on a REDCAP mission. These are really a lot of fun. If you're a flight instructor, you might have periodic flight clinics in your wing, in which you give pilots annual Form 5 checkrides. In Oklahoma Wing, these were usually accompanied by a WINGS safety lecture put on by FAA personnel who were also members. I found that all this training was very valuable.

Bottom line is that CAP is a volunteer organization, which often are extremely political. I'd suggest you attend a meeting and see how you like it before deciding.

Hope this answers your question. Good luck with your experience.
 
I was a cadet commander for about a year. I loved it while i was the only cadet, but as more and more people came in, i moved. I moved back and joined up again, this time as 2nd in command (still a cadet), and loved it for a few weeks. A lawyer took over the sqaudron and the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hit the fan. Needless to say, the CC yelled at the top of his lungs about 6 inches from my face, and basically i told him to $#% off.

Out of the 3 total years i was in it-
1. observation flight
2. 3 worked at 3 air events (had a good time btw)
0 SARs, or SAREX's.

Bottom line- Try it out and if you don't like to go back, after all you are a volunteer. Also, my personal beleif, don't join. If your looknig for quick flight time, go to the flight school.
 
There purpose is very helpfull (searching for) stranded people, and people in need.

That being said, I'm sure some of them may be a good pilot, but their basic overall flying skills stink, They are the "Weekend Warriors", they are among the worst flyers at most fields. I would find another group to help you with your flying.
 
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I was a cadet in the C.A.P. a long time ago, so things have probably changed a lot, but...

For an adult, the best reason for joining is to teach. A large composite squadron (composite=cadets and senior members) is full of young men and women who (1) live and breathe aviation, and (2) are eager to soak up every bit of knowledge they can. If doing your small part to inspire the next generation of pilots and leaders gives you a thrill, the C.A.P. is the place for you!

Caution: just like the Boy Scouts, Red Lobster, and the Baptist church, there are good outfits and there are bad outfits. If you happen to visit a squadron like Larry's, don't assume the entire C.A.P. is full of losers.

P.S. You've got nothing to lose (except a little dough) by joining. If you don't like it, stop attending meetings. It's not like you joined the Foreign Legion or something...
 
Well, I enjoyed the unit I was in. They were a fun bunch of guys and extremely dedicated. They would be out at 3:00 AM on a work night trying to track down a ELT signal. In our unit, if you wanted to fly you could, in fact, they encouraged it.

As far as bad pilots, that was not the case with the guys I knew. Some were former military, some were professional pilots. Just because you fly on the weekend doesn't mean you suck.

Basically, I found that you got out of it what you put in. There were all kinds of interesting training excercises and leadership classes. In addition, the volunteer work looks good on your resume.
 
Can be good or bad

I've been a CAP member off an on for about 15 years. There are good and bad squadrons, so look around. If you don't like the 1st squadron you visit, try another one. If you live near a major metropolitan area, you will probably have several to choose from.

It's really a blast to teach aviation courses to the kids. It's even more fun to give a cadet his or her first airplane (or glider) ride. It's not nearly as much fun to go out at 3:00 AM and hunt for an errant ELT, but someone needs to do it. If it turns out to be a real crash, you just might be saving a life.

You can get what you want from CAP if you're willing to make an effort, but you've got to be self-motivated.
 
from yopur name Dot AK i assume you are in Alaska if not then none of this is relative. The CAP in Alaska is constantly on SAR work. The airplanes are either DHC-2 Beavers on floats wheels or skis, ce- 206, ce- 185 and some 180hp ce-172. You can get out of it what you want. With your total time I am not sure that you will be able to fly anything but the 172 but the rental is cheap and you will get good training. It takes a fair amount of commitment just to get through all the classes and get the training done but after that it is smooth sailing and you do have a real mission. Good luck
 
You really have to want to participate

I'm not surprised at how negative these comments have been.

CAP is a volunteer organization that is as diverse as its members. The quality of the pilots in CAP is as diverse as its members. The quality of the units in CAP is as diverse as its members. Typhoon, Clearsky and Bobbysamd are saying some pretty realistic things.

If you are over the age of 18 and want to learn how to fly on the cheap, don't join CAP. If you want the long winded explanation I'd be happy to go into it.

I joined CAP about 15 years ago as a cadet. I spent 7 years as a cadet and got about 100 times more out of that than I did from scouting, which I also spent a number of years in. The cadet program is outstanding if you're in a good unit. About 3 years ago I went back into it on the adult side. This takes a little more dedication because some of the negative things people say are true.

DO NOT BE IN CAP IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN SERVING FOR LITTLE OR NO GAIN.

You will get from it what you put into it.

CAP is not a flying club and should not be viewed as a way to build cheap flight time. However, if you're interested in giving your free time, and service means more to you than your personal gain, maybe this is for you. It is for me.
 
I posted a very negative responce above, but i do want to tell you that it was not all negative. I felt a VERY good since of pride when i put on the uniform. Be considered "active duty" was also very patriotic. Another good thing was talking to younger kids, 4-10, who actually thought you were in the military. I felt VERY good takling to them about aviation and what it can do for them. But as everyone says, you get what you want from it.
 
I've been a CAP member since I was 13 years old. It is a fantastic organization that helped develop my leadership skills as a youth. It also introduced me to a unique side of aviation. The above comments are all good.

To answer the question on " what do you do on a mission " is that it depends on the mission. A lot of missions are ELT searches. To stick with an air search, most all CAP aircraft are equipped with ELT tracking devices that help to locate the beacon. So a typical search would be to try and get a fix on the ELT within a small geographic region and then either land ( if it is at an airport ) or call in a ground team to go turn it off. More accurately, have it turned off by the approriate party.

A real mission for a missing aircraft is somewhat more involved. As a mission pilot you are assigned a grid to search in. Suffice it to say that a grid is a defined geographical area on a sectional chart. Depending on the terrain features and tree cover of the grid, you fly different search patterns. This is flown at a fairly low altitude. Onboard with you is at least one other person, known as an observer, and possibly one or more scanners. Your job is to fly the airplane, their job is to look outside and search for the missing aircraft. Obviously you will be looking outside as well, but primarily you fly the airplane and keep a good search pattern going. Mission flying is some of the most intersting and demanding flying that you will ever do, especially in the mountains.

As part of CAP training you have to jump through a lot of hoops to become mission pilot qualified. That is where most people get their bad taste from. It can take a long time if the squadron you are in doesn't have people available or run the necessary courses. I didn't get into mission flying until I was furloughed in 1991. Then, since I had a lot of spare time, I flew regularly on both missions and as a Form 5 check pilot and mission check pilot.

Giving cadet orientation rides is another rewarding part of CAP flying that you shouldn't miss out on if you get involved.

Good luck,

Typhoonpilot
 
More about CAP

These are all excellent comments.

CAP = Come And Pay. :) It's true; you pay squadron and national dues. Also, for some of the activities. It's all tax-deductable.

I was involved with cadets as an orientation pilot but more notably as a flight instructor during two flight encampments. I was also the project officer for the second encampment. Cadets applied and were selected for the encampment after being interviewed by a board of officers and by demonstrating their abilities during a flight (gee, sounds a whole lot like an airline interview, doesn't it?). The ones with the most potential received a week of flight training in 172s to solo (the more I write, the more it sounds like airline class :rolleyes: ). Most did. We also had educational seminars about learning to fly, flying careers and flying for the military. At the end of the week we held a graduation ceremony. The two flight encampments in which I was involved were some of the best fun and greatest satisfaction I experienced as a pilot. I really enjoyed working with the young people. I was a new instructor during my first encampment, and soloed three cadets. I began to hone my skills and my presentation during that encampment, and that initial experience paid great dividends later.

Once more, a lot depends on the unit you join. Good luck in the organization.
 
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"because they see the LTC rank on his flight suit and don't notice that he is wearing CAP wings and tennis shoes"

I've got nothing against the CAP, but as an old retired USAF fart, I'd be very embarressed to be seen with most CAP adult members when they are in uniform. Very few of them meet the very high dress, appearance, and fittness standards of the active force.

I recognize that they are a civilian volunteer orgainization and do good work. Why do they need to wear USAF type uniforms? Couldn't they fly their missions in civilian clothes?
 
Wow.

Congratulations, Zeek. That was the single most offensive post I have ever seen on this board.

This whole "band fag" phenomenon fascinates me. Is it your belief that the goal of all high school students is to play football, and those that don't make it volunteer for band?

As a former "band fag," former enlisted man, and former C.A.P. cadet, I want you to know that I mean this very sincerely: put your crank back in your pants, put away the ruler, and grow up.
 
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thanks for all the replies, people!

I guess the CAP must be kinda different in the lower 48 - went to my second meeting tonight, and have yet to run into any hardcore military-wannabes. Seems mostly ex-military and working pilots. Heck, most of the grumbling I heard tonight was about the hot summer, and how early this year crevasses started opening on the glaciers, cutting the season short for flying in climbers to the usual spots.

There's a lot of paperwork - reminds me not-so-fondly of when I was an army brat. But tonight they even had a short "safety talk" where and ATC guy came over and tried to convince everyone that it would make his job much nicer and easier when searching for planes through the records if people would request a dicrete code instead of squawking 1200, which turned into a discussion on how the codes were assigned and why. Next week will be on mountain winds.

Even if I don't really get to fly much with them for a while, it's still really interesting to learn about what's done and how after they're sure you're missing. I look forward to training to be a spotter.

Feel free to keep on commenting; I'm still quite curious what it's like elsewhere!

- Dot_AK
 
Zeek:

Next time that you are " laughing your ass off " you might just stop a minute and go talk to the old gentlemen wearing the flight suit with the grade of LTC on his shoulder. Chances are pretty good he was a pilot in World War II or Korea or that he has been flying for fifty years and has a whole bunch of interesting stories to tell.

I've met some of the most fascinating people from my involvement in Civil Air Patrol.

Sad really, how you let all that wisdom and experience pass by you without getting the chance to chat with someone because of pre-conceived notions.

Typhoonpilot
 
I was a CAP cadet back in junior high/high school, & had a great time. I will second (or third) some of the responses about finding the right squadron.

Just the other day I was departing my home airport when an aircraft called the tower in distress with an "engine failure." Tower asked me if I could fly to the distressed aircraft, which of course I did. We (my CFI & I, I'm working on my CFI) didn't get there until the aircraft had made a successful off airport landing, but it made me feel good that there are other pilots (one other aircraft in the area searched as well) who are willing to go to the aid of a fellow aviator.

I sincerely hope that if I ever need emergency assistance that the LTC in tennis shoes & those like him will be there to respond. In fact, the whole incident above has renewed my interest to volunteer for the CAP again.

'naut
 
CAP Uniforms

JimNtexas said:
"because they see the LTC rank on his flight suit and don't notice that he is wearing CAP wings and tennis shoes"

I've got nothing against the CAP, but as an old retired USAF fart, I'd be very embarressed to be seen with most CAP adult members when they are in uniform. Very few of them meet the very high dress, appearance, and fittness standards of the active force.

I recognize that they are a civilian volunteer orgainization and do good work. Why do they need to wear USAF type uniforms? Couldn't they fly their missions in civilian clothes?
I recall that the CAP Corporation's insurance dictated the uniform requirement for aircrews. Maybe, also, because CAP is sponsered by the AF.

The uniform is part of the public image CAP tries to portray as a professional organization, and members who are out of uniform injure that image. I tried to wear my uniforms well because I was proud of being a member. Most members I knew felt the same way. I think the "old boy" image portrayed by out-of-uniform members is a turn-off to many would-be members. Once more, the quality of the unit seems to dictate the quality of the CAP experience.
 
zeek said:
Well Typhoon boyz- if you can't be an athlete - be an athletic supporter- and remember - the really bright white tennis shoes look the best with the flight suit- I can sleep well at night knowing that a buch of band fags are standing vanguard against enemies both foregin and domestic- flying their Armed Cessna 182 "RG"- - it should be illegal for you guys to wear a military uniform with insignia that looks anything like ours- you do a dishonor to us that really do put our lives on the line for our country ---you are wasting federal funds on an old fat boy - coulda woulda shoulda - flying club-- Z
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, Zeek. It's sad to see someone judging 5,000 people by one pair of tennis shoes.

Tell me something, though. I see you have an ATR type rating. What personal failing of yours made it necessary for you to seek employment at a "regional" carrier while most ex-military pilots were going directly to the majors?
 

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