CitationShares/Frac questions

[Freight Dog]

I keep reading posts how CS is better than NJA especially for new guys in terms of pay, etc. Is that because of upgrade times, or work rules?

I hear NetJets advertises short upgrade on their app, but you guys are saying it's 5+ years. Is that old info or are they planning some really big expansion?

Also, can someone explain how does each frac pick their gateways? I noticed that IAH is not anyone's gateway, and I find that a little odd. If you get airlined to your tour, why does it matter where they airline you from?

Please pardon my ignorance.. I'm trying to learn as much as I can...

Thanks for the info..

 

[Grizz]

Freight Dog,

I've been at NetJets for 2 years and 3 months. My seniority number is 1683. As of the 01/26/05 seniority list we have 1995 pilots. 1200 of those pilots came to NetJets between Jan 2000 and December 2002.

Out of those 1995 pilots, roughly 700 are First Officers currently drawing Captain's bypass pay due to a provision in our contract regarding seat locks.

During our current contract negotiations, the company has made it very clear that they are going to demand some type of mandatory upgrade for existing First Officers drawing Captain's bypass pay. A standing bid or something like that will be required for those First Officers to continue to draw the additional money.

What that means to new hires is that 700 exisiting pilots will have to upgrade before the new hire even has a shot at upgrading. Figuring a generous 10-15 upgrades a month, you start to see the scope of the problem. I honestly don't expect to see a Captain's slot until late 2007 / early 2008 at the earliest.

NetJets First Officer pay starts at $27,000 per year. It jumps to a whopping $32,000 a year at the 5 year point. Think about drawing that type of salary for 5 years or more.

Citation Shares has been upgrading guys within the first 18 months...even earlier in some cases. The downside is that they are non-union so upgrades are based entirely upon how favorably the pilot is rated by his Chief Pilot.

Good luck to you. I honestly can't recommend NetJets as a place to work right now. That may change once our contract is done - but a two year training contract with a $25K price tag is a helluva risk to take just to see how well we do in negotiations.

 

[psysicx]

Even though upgrades at CS are merit based I have not heard of anyone not upgrading in a year.Which means 70K plus but there are negatives to every company.

 

[Freight Dog]

Airlinepilotpay.com shows CS pay for captains be $5,333/mo and FO's at $2,920/mo. Is that base pay only? How does overtime work for you guys? How much can you pick up?

Grizz... does NJA have any more airplanes on order? Also what's the hold-up on your new contract? What caused it to get shot down in the first place? I read somewhere that it was gonna raise the first year pay up to 40k+. Don't mean it as flame-bait, just trying to find out more about the subject.

Thanks for all the info guys... please keep it coming...

 

[Grizz]

Grizz... does NJA have any more airplanes on order? Also what's the hold-up on your new contract? What caused it to get shot down in the first place? I read somewhere that it was gonna raise the first year pay up to 40k+. Don't mean it as flame-bait, just trying to find out more about the subject.

Thanks for all the info guys... please keep it coming...

With 82%+ of the pilots voting against the T/A even with an incredibly strong push for it by the company and the old MEC, it would be easier to answer "What was right with the T/A?" That answer would be - NOT MUCH. It had something offensive to just about everyone.

I'm not going to go into all the details on a public message board but you can bet that this contract is going to be a bare knuckle fight between the company and our determined pilot group. It's going to be a rocky place over the next few months. As a potential new hire, I'd avoid it if I had any other options.

 

[psysicx]

Why doesn't CS get the X.It seems popular at NJA and Options wouldn't that be a smart move.And pay increases are based on how well the company does.Airline pilot pay doesn't show that.