CitationShares adds new pilot bases

[Turbinehead]

Yea, a strike will....

Yea, keep thinking that way...that a union will help the fractional indistry.

In fact, the union at Net Jets will hurt not help the industry. Your attitude will ruin it for everyone else. You will never get that big raise.

Never.

 

[Da Man]

I've seen posts of other threads quoting 13 year captains making $200K+, describing average days worked/month as 12.5 (including vacation), sounds like a pretty good gig to me. Not sure why all the strike talk.

 

[Da Man]

because the Average pay for a Captain is about $47000...

That's a different story, I'd probably join a union over that too.

 

[rettofly]

I've seen posts of other threads quoting 13 year captains making $200K+, describing average days worked/month as 12.5 (including vacation), sounds like a pretty good gig to me. Not sure why all the strike talk.

The big number is for BBJ Captains.

 

[GUNRUNNER22]

How did this turn into a netjets discusion???

 

[Da Man]

How did this turn into a netjets discusion???

Don't they all eventually?

 

[temcgrew]

If NetJets or flightoptions or anyone else would ACTUALLY strike,
what would the outcome be?

Do any of you actually think that would be a wise thing for your individual company? Do you actually think your clients would wait out a strike? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! The movers and shakers in the world just need a ride to the next big deal or the best place to play. They won't just stay home that week or so while you hash out your complaints to managment.

Right now were I live two of the big Grocery Stores are actually on strike but I still have to feed my family!! I will not shop there now and I will continue to not support their buisness after the strike is over.

I will never know why anyone (not just pilots) think that a strike is a good thing. How can hurting the companies buisness help you in the long run?

 

[Groundpounder]

It would be both interesting and educational to see what company requires its employees to work over 95 hours a week at $1.45 an hour, with few if any benefits.

 

[Groundpounder]

Riiiiiiight

 

[Groundpounder]

Ah I knew that was coming "You're not a pilot, so what do you know" . I've worked in line service for over 8 years, and was in a both union and non-union environment, and I have a business degree, so I know what I am talking about.

The safety issues pilot unions fight for are great, no doubt about it. But with all unions, the motives of the people in charge have to be considered. Despite what they may tell you, a union is a business, and it is there to make people money, not to fight for the little guy. For example, the same union represents both Delta mainline pilots, and Comair pilots. ALPA was helping main line pilots put scope clauses into effect, to restrict the growth of Comair. Why was ALPA doing this? Because the Delta mainline pilots put a lot more money into their pockets, and they didn't want to see that money go away.

Those of you that just blindly get on the union gravy train without looking at what they have done to run airlines into the ground are going to have a very big wake up call. Perhaps you have already, with jetBlue and SWA kicking butt and taking names, the tremendous rise of RJ's, and airlines fighting unions with spin-offs like Song and Starfish. The day of the airline pilot making huge amounts of money is going away.

I'm sure everyone is going to jump down my back, and that’s fine, you don't want to see your high paying union jobs go away. But, I am not going to expect to make $200k a year when I finally make it. But you know what? I'll be able to raise a family and live in a nice house on $75k a year.

(Please don't send Vinny and Tony to break my legs, I need to work.....hard)

 

[trainerjet]

and I have a business degree, so I know what I am talking about.

For example, the same union represents both Delta mainline pilots, and Comair pilots. ALPA was helping main line pilots put scope clauses into effect, to restrict the growth of Comair.

with jetBlue and SWA kicking butt and taking names, the tremendous rise of RJ's, and airlines fighting unions with spin-offs like Song and Starfish. The day of the airline pilot making huge amounts of money is going away.

A couple of points and questions for you and your business degree.

Which airline is growing, Delta or Comair? But it is ALPA's backed Delta scope clause which is restricting Comair's growth. Ok. Just wanted to see that I had that straight.

Of the airlines you mentioned, (and I'll throw in Air Tran, since they are turning a nice profit), ALL are unionized except for jetBlue. And Song is being flown by Delta pilots working under the same union contract as any other Delta pilot. How does that help your argument?

 

[Groundpounder]

It is my understanding that Song pilots have a lower pay scale than 'normal' Delta pilots. Perhaps I am wrong.

Yes, Comair is growing, but isn't a scope clause to prevent the loss of main line routes to lower paid RJ pilots?

SW, and AT are union shops, but they seem to have a better relationship with management.

The way some of the pro-union people argue, it is amazing jetBlue planes haven't fallen out of the sky.

 

[Groundpounder]

I wasn't trying to impress anyone by saying I have a business degree, I was just trying to prove I'm not an uneducated boob.

The reason I've been in line service for so long is that I love aviation. I could have been making alot more money doing something else. I've always wanted to fly for a living, and I'm about a week away from getting my SE commerical. I'm not getting into aviation because it is an easy dollar, I'm doing it because its something I love.

On the other side of the coin, I have a non-aviation degree, so I can always fall back on that if the flying thing doesn't work out.

 

[Live4flyng]

Groundpounder,

There is no such thing as an easy dollar in avaition. Like Gunfytr said, he has been flying for 20 years and is nowhere close to making $75K/year.

I'm sure everyone is going to jump down my back, and that’s fine, you don't want to see your high paying union jobs go away. But, I am not going to expect to make $200k a year when I finally make it. But you know what? I'll be able to raise a family and live in a nice house on $75k a year.

This is exactly the reason why aviation is so screwed up even to this day. Attitudes like that will not make aviation a good place for people who do want to make a career out of it.

As you are begining to find out, it takes about as long to become a professional pilot as it does to be a doctor, not to mention the cost. Aviation is one of the most tested professions in existance, even more so than being a doctor. So I guess you would argue that doctors shouldn't be making $200K/year with the trust of you and your family in their care.

You can believe what you want Goundpounder, but someday you will find out first hand how tough a career in aviation (AS A PILOT) really is.

My advise would be to fall back on that wonderful business degree of yours and stay away from aviation. That way there is no doubt that you can live in that nice house for $75K/year. If we keep taking pay cuts, no one will want to work as a pilot and the cockpit will be littered with SE commercial pilots at the controls working for $12K/year. Not with me as a passenger I might add!

Take from all the PROs who have tried to fill you with a little wisdom here. By the way, how much do you think a 5 year captain flying you and your family around in a brand new business jet should make?

 

[Diesel]

I'm sure everyone is going to jump down my back, and that’s fine, you don't want to see your high paying union jobs go away. But, I am not going to expect to make $200k a year when I finally make it. But you know what? I'll be able to raise a family and live in a nice house on $75k a year.

75k wouldn't get you crap in the Northeast. Maybe if you lived out in BFE would 75k mean something.

I love how once your a doctor your never tested again. You can make 500k and never have to be tested the rest of your life. While we as pilots are poked and prodded every 6 months. Then there is the fun time we have in the sim, because that's just a big video game.

Just starting off everyone thinks 75k is a ton. Then they realize how little money they make compared to be away from their families all that time. How dangerous the job really is, and all the crap we have to deal with. Thank you TSA.

Groundpounder and others like him continue to chop away at the knees of those that worked hard to make this a respectable profession.

 

[trainerjet]

It is my understanding that Song pilots have a lower pay scale than 'normal' Delta pilots. Perhaps I am wrong.

Yes, Comair is growing, but isn't a scope clause to prevent the loss of main line routes to lower paid RJ pilots?

.

Yes, you are definitely mistaken that Song pilots have a lower pay scale than "normal" Delta pilots. The pilots that fly the Song aircraft are regular Delta pilots on the Delta seniority list, and are subject to the same provisions of the contrat as any other Delta pilot, inclucing pay scales. There is always the chance that this could change at some point in the future with concession or negotiation of a new contract, but that's the way it is today.

As far as scope clauses preventing the loss of main line routes to lower paid RJ pilots, take a look around you. It is happening every day. Scope clauses ususally put some sort of limit of the number of 50 to 70 seat RJs that can be operated by the subsidiary or contract carriers, and draw a line at the number of seats of the aircraft which must be operated by mainline. But they in no way prevent the loss of main line routes to the RJ. There are many, many routes which used to be operated by a mainline MD-80 or 737 that are now operated by an RJ.

 

[Groundpounder]

I see I will lose this battle, so I'll wave the white flag.

But, just so that I am clear, I am not becoming a professional pilot for the money. I'm doing it because it is something I have dreamt about since I was old enough to understand the concept. Obviously I'll need money to put the food on the table, but I don't expect to get rich. If I wanted to, I could get a desk job, but I'd be bored to tears. Thats why I'm out there busting my hump in 95 degree heat and 10 degree cold doing this line service gig. From the sounds of it, some of you guys would rather do something else besides aviate. If thats the case, move over, and let those of us who have a burning desire to slip the surly bonds have our chance.

 

[bravodude]

Groundpounder

That is the big problem with aviation. you love what you do and you would do it for next to nothing. i felt the same way you did when i was a cfi. all i wanted to do was work for a regional. well i got the chance to fly a 1900 wear the uniform and make 13,000 a year. This is the problem!!!!!!!!!!. people become pilots because they love it and employers take advantage of that by paying you next to nothing and makeing you believe it is an honor to wear the uniform. everybody on this board loves to fly we just are not going to bend over and take it up the rear to do so. THIS IS A JOB THAT REQUIRES ALOT OF SKILL AND I WILL BE PAID A DESCENT SALARY FOR DOING THIS JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is it in a nutshell if you cant understand that you have no bussiness beeing in aviation.
(sorry for the spelling its 4am)