Citation III job

[FL350]

Hi all,

I got a call today from a company that operates a Citation III. He asked me what I would expect for pay. I gave him a figure based on what I am making now and would be happy making with a new job. I am afraid I may have given him a figure far too low. He seemed very interested in me after I told him. What can a corporate Citation III driver expect to make?

I appreciate any follow ups on this.

FL350

 

[1900cpt]

What number did you give him?!? Just a guess, but 35k is a realistic figure.

1900cpt

 

[Dep676]

I agree with 1900cpt. I would think it would depend where you are located. What position is it for captain or FO? I know places that pay there FO's in the 40's and there are other that pay in the high 20's. I know a guy that flys a conquest making in the 70's. Not to shabby for a turbine driver. Don't sell you self short though. It's easy to come down but it's hard to try and get more once you give them a figure.

Good Luck

 

[Humblepilot]

Is it Just Me

I am happy you have someone calling you with 1,100 hours. Don't take this as a personal but how is it that you got that offer with people with a great deal more experience than you lining up at employer's doors begging for work.

I have noticed several posts from less competitive time pilots who are getting these jobs. What am I missing?

Is the fact most of us have furlough on our resumes?

And as to your question of money. Its all about what the market will bear. You have to look at what the job will take (cleaning the airplane, doing the Jepps, arranging rental cars, flight planning the trips..et al) how many days off, are there benefits or is this contractual work.

Depending on the city and the cost of living, the previous numbers sound close.

Humble

 

[FL350]

two cents...

The figure I gave him was a little lower than what you all quoted. However if it helps me get the job...i will take it. It is still more than I am making now.

As for Humblepilots question, networking networking networking. Since I started working when I was 16, I have never gotten a job by blindly sending out a resume or filling out an application. Every job I have gotten has been because I knew or a friend knew the man doing the hiring. In my short time in this business I have found that your logbook will only get you so far. Who you know and how you can get along with who you know are worth a couple thousand hours. Thats my two cents from an 1100 hour pilot. I'll get off my soapbox now. happy flying.

FL 350

 

[1900cpt]

Dont settle for a number because it is more than you make now...Shoot high, and settle lower(than you asked for) and you will still be ahead.

Also find out if there are extra duites...washing the plane, jepps, office/busy work or is it all flying?!?

How about a schedule....is it all beeper, do you have any hard days off...when do you get typed? Does he cover any expenses, such as food??

Can anyone else think of anything i left out?

1900cpt

 

[FL350]

I just got off the phone with the chief pilot. He has scheduled an interview/trip with me next week. He is paying air fare, daily pay, and expenses.

No busy/office work, will have to do jepps, no pager, will have to keep airplane tidy and cleaned periodically. I didn't hear anything that was out of the ordinary or at all objectionable.

I don't want to settle for a salary but I don't want to ask so much that he can find someone else to hire with more experience and less $$.

Thanks for the info.

Can anybody else think of anything that he may have forgotten?

FL350

 

[English]

In answer to humblepilot's question...

Many furloughed pilots are having difficulty getting a corporate/135 job right now because furloughed airline pilots are perceived as being short term employees. I witnessed this myself a few months ago when helping my former employer find a replacement for my position when I left the company. I was told to discard any resume that was from a furloughed airline pilot, or from any pilot with large transport category type ratings (airliners not bizjets). I was furloughed myself, so I know what everyone is going through. I would recommend that everyone tailor their resumes for the position sought. Listing 16,000 TT and six type ratings for a first officer position is not very smart, IMHO. It's kinda a red flag in the corporate world. Not my doing or the way I would want things, just passing on my experience.

 

[RJones]

Alright, so you tailor your resume to fit the job and when they do the background check your busted for lying on your application/resume.

Basically a pilot with 1,100 hours sitting in the right seat of a CE650 is extra weight, not much use. This chief pilot wants someone who's low time 1) to sit and be quite 2) to show the boss that he's keeping expenses down, and 3) to run the show his way whether it's legal or not.

My personal experience of looking for a flying job since 9/11 Humblepilot is, of the folks I've talked with, they are interested but 1) they don't want to spend the money on training, prefer that one is current and qualified, and 2) they don't want to pay the going rate.

Going rate for an F/O position for a CE650 is 40K, no less! Captain is 70K, no less.

RJ

 

[English]

RJones,

I understand your frustrations and agree with your comments. However, what I'm mentioning is not lying on the resume, it's merely tailoring the resume AND COVER LETTER to fit the position. For example, I came across many resumes with generic cover letters that stated qualifications such as "heavy international experience in a part 121 environment". How does this experience apply to a Part 91 position flying a Citationjet that only flies domestically? My point wasn't to lie on a resume, but to merely personalize the resumes and cover letters for the particular position.

 

[proav]

I was offered a job with a company that operates two Citation III's. We didn't get as far as actual pay because I wasn't willing
to relocate to where the job was. I was already employed at the
time and was not looking, they approached me with the offer. I
casually told them that I was making $35,000 flying a BE20 and
had negotiated a raise to $50,000 in 6 months when I was to
take on additional duties. He didn't say what they would pay, but
that I would be very happy with their rates if I chose to come on
board. They were looking for someone that could pretty much
upgrade to Captain within a month or two was what I was told.
Keep in mind this was Spring of 2001 and a lot has changed since
then.
By the way, I am no longer doing the King Air thing. It wasn't all
it was cracked up to be!

Good luck!

 

[h25b]

"Basically a pilot with 1,100 hours sitting in the right seat of a CE650 is extra weight, not much use. This chief pilot wants someone who's low time 1) to sit and be quite 2) to show the boss that he's keeping expenses down, and 3) to run the show his way whether it's legal or not."


Now that's a GREAT line. Not really true, maybe sometimes I guess... But,.... then again, I've had plenty with 5000 tt. sitting up front with me that I could say the same about. You gotta look at what that 1100 hrs. is... Cessna 152, or King Air, or a jet... and remember that the guy/gal sitting there could save you from doing something REALLY stupid and I'd rather have him/her there than "extra weight", however much time they have.

Keep an open mind, things aren't always what they seem. It may be that the chief pilot wants to give a good person a great opportunity and someone who'll be around a while. There are those out there, few as they may be. Good operators are doing what they have always done, looking for the best OVERALL candidate they can. That will never change. That person is their choice, and he/she might have 1000 tt., they may have 5000 tt.

Bottom line, you need to network and convince people that YOU are that right person for THEM. Your motivation/personality speaks for you a lot better than your total time column. Where I work, we don't spend a lot of time impressing each other with how much time we have.

My, perhaps controversial, .02 cents.....

 

[Humblepilot]

Networking

I agree networking is very important and I have been doing it since about September 18th before I was even furloughed.

What is frustrating to many of us is not being hired because we are furloughed. How many of us have been just out right layed off from a corporate job with no warning and no severance (raising my hand). So the argument that I don't want to spend any money training you is mute to me. Because of exactly that risk. As a corporate employer you can't guarantee my job any farther than tommorrow.

I want to fly airplanes and give my employer 150% effort for the YEARS, yes its going to be four to five years for many of us. But I guess I won't get that chance. "Would you like fries with that?"

Good luck in your new job.

Humble

 

[RJones]

I can remember when I had 1200 plus hours and flying for my first commercial operator trying to shoot an ILS to minimums in a C210, pretty exciting to say the least, I can't imagine what it'd be like in a CE650 with that amount of time. From what I can tell FL350 has a lot of "bug smashing" time with some CE500 series time -- straight wing jet, which is a breeze to fly.

"Now that's a GREAT line. Not really true, maybe sometimes I guess..."

It is a great line and for the most part it is true...most part 'cause this chief pilot has someone to clean the plane for him when he gets to the destination and drive the rental car for him...so I guess he's not really extra weight. It's difficult to keep an "open mind," I know I've seen it and although it's a great opportunity I can tell you from experience what will happen.

It's obvious that this chief pilot wants someone cheap and isn't too concerned about safety. I'm sure FL350 is a great pilot, however, that does mean he has the experience to pull that plane out of a serious situation or tell the guy to go around 'cause from his experience the situation doesn't look right.

I agree with Humblepilot's recent reply, corporations make no bones about letting you go at a moment's notice. The training cost is a mute point, I wish I could see it that way. I recently had a chief pilot tell me "I see you have a 737 type, what say's that after we spend the money getting you trained, you leave after six months for that airline job, how do I tell my boss to justify that expense, I need you to stay for at least a year." This after I'd "tailored" the cover letter and resume to fit the job...do I hide my 737 type? Rather hard to do I suspect.

I'm in the same boat with Humblepilot, I want to fly but I also want to maximize my earning potential and the labor I have to offer which is why I say "I have to do what's right for my family" it's the same thing a corporation does when they let you go, they have to do what's right for the company.

FL350, I suggest that you look into a pilot salary survey and see what F/O's get paid...come back with that offer. Keep your "SA" up and don't let this guy smoke you, get some training like F.S. or S.F. out of them...but don't underestimate your labor.

My 2 cents.

RJ

 

[flywithruss]

My two cents ...

A lot of great comments posted, as usual. I will offer my opinion, of course ....

Like FL350, I was a low-timer offered a good opportunity (which I took) on turbine equipment. I'm co-pilot on a KA 200 ... my boss and I alternate left-seat ... when I'm PIC, he's a good FO to me ... trusts my judgment and training, not just our logbooks. In talking to him (and many other corporate CPs) the concept that time is not the overriding factor is pretty clear. Experience is important, but so are many other factors.

My two cents ... for what it is worth. Stay safe out there!

Tailwinds, y'all ...

R

 

[h25b]

I just seem to remember that the regional airlines like Comair, Chautauqua, Sky West, Continental Express, ACA, ASA.... (I could go on, but I'll spare everyone, because I"m sure they know em...) have been hiring hundreds, probably thousands of new pilots at 1000 tt. and placing them directly in to the right seats of RJ's. If memory serves, there hasn't been ANY significant increases in airplanes falling out of the skies because of all the "dead weight" they've been placing in the right seats. It just pains me to see instances where the corporate ranks can't realize that.

If this pilot can't recognize when some idiot is about to kill him/her and tell him to GO-AROUND at 1100 hrs., then he/she probably won't have the wherewithall to say it at 5000 hrs....

In closing, I would just love to gain the knowledge of when a pilot loses the "dead weight" restriction and joins the ranks of the rest of the general population. It sure seems that would be useful information. Until then, I'll continue to give out encouragement and the best advice I have.

 

[h25b]

I guess I wasn't closing, because I forgot one other comment...

I don't think I'd accuse anyone of not being concerned about safety just because he's hired someone to fly co-pilot on a Citation III at 1000 tt.... If that's the case, then our Dept. that's flown 45 years and 60,000 hrs. accident free doesn't care about safety....

That's all, I promise.........................

 

[FL350]

Quite an education...

Well as usual I have learned more than I asked for, but am happy to have the info.

I don't know what the deal is with this job. I hope to find out during the interview. Afterall, isn't that what interviews are for? I don't want to bring down the corporate pay scale by working for peanuts. That is not my plan.

As for the statement about not caring about safety...
I have yet to meet a pilot who wasn't concerned about safety any time the wheels aren't touching the ground.

There sure are a lot of two cents out there...I think this thread is up to being worth close to a dollar.

FL350

 

[CE650SC]

What can a Citation III Driver Make?

I think you asked a question before your fellow furloughed airline brother took this in a different direction?
I fly a Citation III and SII for a living so I am giving you first hand information. I guess he is hiring you as a First Officer for right now, at least until you are insurable as PIC? As a First Officer you should be making around $45,000 to $50,000. It shouldn't matter how much time you have because you are getting hired to do a specific job, the same job a guy with more flight time would do. If he needs you to do PIC duties at times, then the job should pay more. This is a corporate aircraft that has a MTOW of 22,000 lbs. Don't sell yourself short because you're afraid you wont get the job. Be kind a curteous and do your research. Take figures with you to the interview so that you can show him what the average pay is for the Citation III. There are several web sites that you can put in the Zip code and type of job and get the average pay. You can also look up what kind of salary it will take to live in that area.
Sorry for all the crap that you got about not being qualified! There are quite a few pilots out of work and they say things they don't mean. We all think the world revolves around us, but find out quite often that it really doesn't. PM me if you need any help. The C-III is a fun airplane. Best of luck to you.

 

[FalconPilot69]

FL350

FL350, I have to say congrats to you for getting the interview. Just about 2 years ago, I was in the same situation as yourself. I had just over 1,200 hours and was hired to fly Falcon 20's. All I had was King Air B200 time. The Chief Pilot, who has been around as long as the Wright Brothers, picked me over guys with much more time and better time than I had due to the fact that he believed in giving people a break just like he got when he got started.

I too am like many others here that lost their jobs due to 9/11 and am finding it darn near impossible to get back into the air. True there are Chief Pilots out there and even Captains with the "Gear Up, Flaps Up, Shut Up" attitude, but your obviously have the ability to know that the gear needs to be down to land. Don't let anyone dampen the opportunity you have been given. One thing I can tell you, and it was stated earlier, is that in corporate flying, you are here today and gone tomorrow. There is typically no warning and no severance. If you can, get it negotiated up front regarding a severance package.

In short, best of luck to you, and I hope it turns out to be the opportunity you are hoping it is.

JL