Citation gig...

FutureTEDpilot

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I have been offered an excellent gig flying a Citation 2-3 days a week for a really nice company, I will be the "Chief Pilot" and the airplane is mine to take care of etc, etc. It will only be part 91 flying and very close to my house. I am going to hire a F/O as well, unless the owner has his Brother who just got out of the Navy and was recently furloughed from a regional fly with me. (I like regional guys so I prefer him to finding someone else)

They are paying for my CE-500 Type at Simcom, but the one thing they are having problems is the fact that the insurance company wants me to have 50 (FIFFTY) hours with another Capt before I am "cut lose" I have several types in large 121 aircraft 9000+ with tons of jet time PIC (all 121) I have not spoken to the Insurance guy directly to see if they didn't get my quals correct or what the deal is. My last type was an MD80 and all I needed was 20 hours of IOE and I was cut lose!

Any thoughts and insight to Corporate Insurance?
 

340drvr

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Can't speak to your specific example, but it seems like none of that insurance stuff is ever set in stone. I just got through the same kind of thing (albeit for turbo-prop quals), at first I didn't meet the insurance mins to the letter, but after discussion and showing other appropriate experience, I was OK'ed. It sure sounds like with your experience, they'd make some concessions.
Bottom line, don't give up, put on your pit-bull face, call the insurance and try to work out something.
Good luck.
 

CapnVegetto

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FutureTEDpilot said:
I have been offered an excellent gig flying a Citation 2-3 days a week for a really nice company, I will be the "Chief Pilot" and the airplane is mine to take care of etc, etc. It will only be part 91 flying and very close to my house. I am going to hire a F/O as well, unless the owner has his Brother who just got out of the Navy and was recently furloughed from a regional fly with me. (I like regional guys so I prefer him to finding someone else)

They are paying for my CE-500 Type at Simcom, but the one thing they are having problems is the fact that the insurance company wants me to have 50 (FIFFTY) hours with another Capt before I am "cut lose" I have several types in large 121 aircraft 9000+ with tons of jet time PIC (all 121) I have not spoken to the Insurance guy directly to see if they didn't get my quals correct or what the deal is. My last type was an MD80 and all I needed was 20 hours of IOE and I was cut lose!

Any thoughts and insight to Corporate Insurance?

Get used to it. Insurance companies drive the industry. They get what they want. 50 hours is very reasonable. You ain't in the airlines anymore bro. 10,000 hours of PIC time in the Space Shuttle won't do you a dam bit of good getting insured in a Citation because it's not 'time in type'.

I've seen a 15,000 hour Northwest heavy jet captain get turned down by an insurance company over me (a 300 hour instructor) to ferry a Seneca II for a guy because he had no time in type.
 

filejw

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A friend of mine does IOE type work in the the Citation if you need some help.He mostly works with new owner operators. 50 hrs I think is for people with limited experience.That call to the insurance company should do it.
 

prpjt

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It is your insurance brokers job to go to bat for you with the underwriter. Ask them to waive the hourly limitation and replace it with a certain number of trips/legs.

If you do short hops a lot it would take forever to get the 50 hours in the normal course of business. Get them to change it to so many takeoffs and landings.

They will want to see trips, not just a bunch of touch and goes, but this arrangement worked for us in a Citation.

Tell your broker to go do some work. Good luck.
 

FutureTEDpilot

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Thanks for the help guys,

The Broker called and he wasn't "fully" aware of my times in various light twins etc, so they are going to lower it to at least 25 hours maybe even lower but 25 is reasonable to me.

My Pitts time actually paid off!

C=ya
 

HawkerF/O

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PRPJT is right. You broker needs to get off his A##. 25 hours? YOu didn't need that when you got turned loose flying over 100 people in a plane much larger than that citation. How did Light Twin time help when the MD80 time didn't? Your broker is not doing his job and giving you lip service. I would tell say those terms are still unreasonable. Look, your broker needs to be fired. If he can't do better than that, it tells you that the broker WEAK relationship with the underwriter, as the UW is the one making the calls on times, not the broker. How much extra $ is it going to cost your employer to have some seat warmer come in for 25-50 hours? That is where your problem is. With your quals, you should have something MUCH less restrictive. I have a friend who deals with this kind of BS all the time and he does not put up with it. He is a broker, and he tells me that "I might not agree with what the Chief Pilot wants to do, but he is the CP and I have to do what he wants". What he is saying is that if the CP wants to hire a 250 TT ME, INST, COMM pilot, then he should be able to do that, and as the broker it is his job to make that happen. He knows that he works for you, not the other way around. He is not your typical lazy broker that won't budge because he thinks he knows best what your flight department needs. If you want to truly save money on your policy and get the terms for hiring/being turned loose that are acceptable to you, PM me and I wil put you in touch with him. Since he is the broker, he won't come out and guarentee what I have just told you, but I have seen him do this time after time after time. He specializes in this type of problem. He is one of the best in the business and is a Jet Pilot himself that got into insurance after a flight dept he was working at closed. Most of these brokers have PPLs if anything at all and they want to tell you how to run your department. You are not going to run into that here. The broker works for you, and lots of depts let the broker set the terms of who they can hire or who can fly their jets by being so restrictive on the policy terms. Don't be a victim of that. If you are not getting what you need, let me put you in touch with my guy and let the majic begin. I can assure you that if he is giving you such a hard time, he'll try to restrict who you can hire in the right seat by giving you some outrageous SIC mins; after all, you are not qualified in his eyes until you get 50 hours, right? PM me and I'll put you in touch with this guy. He'll get you squared away.
FutureTEDpilot said:
I have been offered an excellent gig flying a Citation 2-3 days a week for a really nice company, I will be the "Chief Pilot" and the airplane is mine to take care of etc, etc. It will only be part 91 flying and very close to my house. I am going to hire a F/O as well, unless the owner has his Brother who just got out of the Navy and was recently furloughed from a regional fly with me. (I like regional guys so I prefer him to finding someone else)

They are paying for my CE-500 Type at Simcom, but the one thing they are having problems is the fact that the insurance company wants me to have 50 (FIFFTY) hours with another Capt before I am "cut lose" I have several types in large 121 aircraft 9000+ with tons of jet time PIC (all 121) I have not spoken to the Insurance guy directly to see if they didn't get my quals correct or what the deal is. My last type was an MD80 and all I needed was 20 hours of IOE and I was cut lose!

Any thoughts and insight to Corporate Insurance?
 
Last edited:

Corporate Slug

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CapnVegetto said:
Get used to it. Insurance companies drive the industry. They get what they want. 50 hours is very reasonable. You ain't in the airlines anymore bro. 10,000 hours of PIC time in the Space Shuttle won't do you a dam bit of good getting insured in a Citation because it's not 'time in type'.

I've seen a 15,000 hour Northwest heavy jet captain get turned down by an insurance company over me (a 300 hour instructor) to ferry a Seneca II for a guy because he had no time in type.
You need to find another insurance guy. I was covered no problem for SP ops in a Citation with zero time in them three years ago. Did the Type ride in the sim, did the SP ride in the airplane.

I picked up the plane from the factory and had a grand total of 1.6 hours in the airplane and flew it back home Single Pilot with the full blessing of the Insurance company. The last plane I flew before that was a 737.

When getting quotes I only had one company want 50 hours in type, most started with the standard 10 to 20 in type, but waived it when they found out my times. Somewhere in the 7500 range then with about 3500 turbine.
 
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