Citation CJ2 Crash

[Timebuilder]

I'd say "no".

The profile of the owner-operator, as I see it, is a guy whose primary business isn't aviation, and never has been aviation. He has the money to own and fly the jet, but lacks the experience of the professional pilot. We will see many more of him in the years to come.

Spleen venting: the "United" turboprop crew, who after being asked to expedite their turnoff from 19R at IAD last night, dawdled along and forced our 55 to go around after a long day, with two more legs to go. Thanks again.

I feel better now.

 

[501261]

Would you folks feel the same way if I were to win the Lottery and then buy say a Lear 35? Would I fit into that category of being an owner operator as you describe?

RJ

Yes, I would! You're obviously a professional and very well qualified to fly a Lear 35, but if you win the lottery hire a pilot!

If I won the lottery I'm hiring a couple of "good" pilots and paying them accordingly, I'm going to sit in the back and live the good life! If I wanted to "fly" I'd buy a Waco or a glider or something fun to "fly", but going from point A to B is just work and I'd just assume let the professional handle that, while my "stewardess" serves me up an iced cold beverage (I'd also hire a flight "hostess" for my Lear)!

A good pilot is more than going to pay for himself anyway and it's such a small cost of the total operation. Take the LR35 example; flying it 400 hours a year is going to cost you $600,000. If an extra $120,000 is going to break you than you shouldn't own a Lear! Now a good pilot-manager is going to negotiate good fuel rates, insurance, hangar space, etc. That will more than save you the $120,000 anyway! Same with a mechanic, they easily pay for themselves too!

 

[100-1/2]

Not meaning to continue an already lengthy thread by introducing a new consideration, however:

On the topic of "suicidal owner/operators", there is no Insurance underwriter (of the limited few remaining)that will write a policy on an individual such as this (low time in type, much less a jet) and allow them to own/operate single pilot without substantial (supplemental) experience in the cockpit (3k-5k w/500 in type). I will bet the Underwriter baulks on the claim and leaves the poor sap hanging for the incurred loss(es). This structure is supposed to be a deterrant to the "Millionaire massacre methodology". With a professional in the front office, experience would have recognized the ensuing events and arrested the deteriorating progression saving a four legged friend, a couple million bucks and probably a certificate action.

I would avoid my mailbox like the plague, if I was this guy.

 

[English]

100 1/2


Not true. I know several owner/operators in the 1500 TT range with less than 100 in type who are insured single pilot.

 

[cvsfly]

Bet they pay a fortune. And we are talking turbine equipment worth over $1 mil? Or are these ragged out C-90s with the minimum liability on them?

 

[English]

No, I know two owner/operators of CJs in that time range. Yes, they are insured. In addition, when I was hired on at my company, all I had to do was fly 25 hours supervised as PIC in the CJ to get insured. I'm pretty low total time, and I had no problems getting insured single pilot.

 

[100-1/2]

Is that what THEY said or have you actually seen the policy? Even Owner/operators are typically required to gain [siginificant] experience in a turbo-jet supplemented by more experienced flight crew (dictated by Uw)until such a time as the Owner meets the limits contained in the contract to act as PIC in Single-pilot Turbojet operations of any kind(exception: experimental aircraft where pax are prohibited). Passengers are liabilities either in themselves or their family that deeply misses them, hoping to feel better with significant financial compensation for their loss. Minimizing exposure to potential claims and lowering the risk of lawsuit, Underwriters require time and experience or second pilots in aircraft not requiring them.

Always has been this way and always will be this way as long as Tort is around.

 

[English]

100 1/2,

All that is required at my company to be covered flying the CJ single pilot is to be approved by our Director of Operations. I was signed off to fly the CJ single pilot after having flown a few trips with the Chief Pilot and Director of Operations.

You seem surprised by this, but the CJ is an amazing simple aircraft to fly. That's why it is certified single-pilot. Plus, it's a jet. Doesn't get any easier than that.

I flew a C172 today for the first time in about a year. Now THAT'S scary!

 

[501261]

English is right; insurance is not that big of an issue.

I know a 900tt hour Citation owner. He was/is able to fly the Citation Single Pilot. His insurance is more expensive, he pays $50,000 annually (average is $20,000 for a $1M hull and $10M liability).

Personally, he scares the hell out of me! Sure some people say, let him go out there and kill himself. My problem with him is he creates a mid-air hazard by not having a clue on how to operate in the IFR Jet environment! ATC="Citation NxyzTT, you where cleared to MZB VOR, where are you going??...... Make an immediate 40 degree left turn you have traffic 12 o'clock 5 miles!"

 

[swberry]

Low time pilots in command of high performance aircraft have certain "restrictions" placed on the insurance policy. This is especially true for owner/operators. Some insurance providers may include a "runway length exclusion."