Citation 500 Co-Pilot or Regional?

[PA31Ho]

I'm sure there have been a variety of these type of questions on here before... now it's my turn. I have a sure job as a co-pilot on a 500 series Citation. I got a call from Piedmont today for an interview date in June. Obviously, it's not a guaranteed job after the interview, but the Citation is. I'm really confused and I need some other opinions on what I should do. My times are: 700TT/300Multi.

Thanks a lot guys/gals..

-Nick

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Interview anyway. It never hurts to get the experience. Is there a potential to ever upgrade in the Citation or are you going to be a right seat gear slinger until you find something else? What is the other pilot like to fly with? Would he/she be fun to hang out with on the road? Flying for a small corporate flight department means spending a lot of time around the same person....make sure that you take this into consideration. Also, of course, how does the pay compare? Not just now....but over the next few years. How about where you will be living..would you rather be where the Citation is or would you rather be living or commuting to one of Piedmont's domiciles? Its not really a universal decision..there are lots of questions you have to ask yourself and make the best decision that will suit your needs.

 

[PA31Ho]

I haven't met the Citation Capt because the job hasn't started yet. He did mention about typing me in the Citation after a while, then a possible upgrade to a Westwind next year. Pay with the Citation will be considerably more than any regional will pay. I was just worried about making a bad long term decision.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I see. Its a tough call. I left 91 Corporate after 3 and a half years to go 121, just because I like the schedule, people, and environment a lot better. I also know others that have left 121 to take dream corporate jobs working twice a month making 90k a year (my 91 job wasn't like this or even close to it). All you can really do is research both jobs extensively and choose the one that you believe will fit you best. It may not necessarily be what everyone else thinks, but what matters is that you do what is best for yourself. A lot of people thought I was crazy for leaving 91 to go to work for...dare I say it...a regional airline. Whatever, the truth is I'm not an unhappy disgruntled pilot like I used to be with my last job.

Also, is it 91 or 135? While there are many quality 91 jobs available, there are very few 135 jobs that anyone would want to make a career out of. This is something you may want to think about.

 

[mattpilot]

He did mention about typing me in the Citation after a while, then a possible upgrade to a Westwind next year.

I'd get that in writing if i were you.

 

[PA31Ho]

It's Part 91, basically flying the plane to look at different pieces of property around the southeast. Yea, about the type rating 'in writing'... ain't that the truth!

More opinions are greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Goose Egg]

If it were me, I'd go for the CE-500 gig, the environment, schedule, people, and nature of 91 work being the perks, the "considerably more than regional pay" being the clincher. But I think these threads can only be useful to a point because everyone loves to opine when they don't have to live with the consequences. You do, so you probably shouldn't be taking a poll.


-Goose

 

[FlightTraker]

If I were you, I would stay away from the US Airways system. With Air Wisconsin's CRJs "suppossedly" moving into the Big U network, who knows what might happen to Piedmont and their Dash 8s. Stranger things have happened in this industry.......

 

[JimNtexas]

. My times are: 700TT/300Multi.

Thanks a lot guys/gals..

-Nick

Wow, are those time competative for regionals these days? Or is the 300 hours in some kind of heavy metal?

 

[PA31Ho]

PA31 & C421... Citation II co-pilot experience but was never logged. The guy has a single pilot type in it, and I was told I couldn't log SIC so I didn't. Now I'm hearing that I could have logged it even if he was single pilot in the II. But I do have that Citation II co-pilot in my resume.

One thing that may also change an opinion... I'm only 23.

I was told that because I'm so young, take the regional job... the pay may not be so great now, but it will be way better than a part 91 job down the road... I dunno, tough decision... although, it shouldn't be!

 

[mattpilot]

PA31 & C421... Citation II co-pilot experience but was never logged. The guy has a single pilot type in it, and I was told I couldn't log SIC so I didn't. Now I'm hearing that I could have logged it even if he was single pilot in the II. But I do have that Citation II co-pilot in my resume.

You can log whatever the hell you feel like logging (gosh). If you want to log time on toilet (TOT), by all means, log it - you got extra columns . You are only required to log time to keep current - everything else is optional! Only when applying for a certificate or rating issued by the FAA must you meet the guidelines set forth in the FARs.

Other than that, log whatever you feel like sounds good to the airlines. If airlines don't want to accept it in their final TT tally, fine.. no harm done. When logging time, the only thing that matters is your ability to explain it.

 

[FN FAL]

What's the pay?

What's the Q.O.L?

If you can get both at the Citation job...go for it! Especially if he is talking types and especially if the schedule is not demanding at the part 91 job.

On the flip side of the coin, you'll never know what regional life is like untill you have tried it. Maybe that would work out for you...if you don't try it, you'll never know.

I got a friend that is laid off twice from Midwest Airlines, he aint going back. Him and his furloughed Midwest Airlines FA wife found a niche market working in contract part 91 jet operations. Him as a pilot and her as a corporate FA...go figure?

Judging by the posts you have gotten and will get, you'll hear a pleathora of answers and suggestions. I'd say go for the airline job, so you can get it out of your system. On the other hand, I'd say don't go to the airlines untill you have got enough PIC experience to be able to leave and get going on something else...don't let them make a slave out of you. That might not make much sense to you now, but it might later.

 

[fxbat]

My .02

If you can get a type and 1000hrs PIC go for the 91 job. That is if you really want to work for the airlines. I really like the life style of 91 flying and I am currently looking to go back. There will always be some low paying reg. job out there but if you have the 1k Pic turbo-jet when you start the 121 flying, you will be set up for the next step.
P.S. I can’t think of a better jet to cut your teeth on than a citation.

 

[avoidingmyboss]

Ok my turn,

When I started my job we were all best friends, now we hate each other. There is nothing worse then being stuck with a guy you can't stand or who can't stand you. My point is if you lock up two people in a small confined area for too long they will fight about how to part their hair or if you should pick your nose with your index finger or pinky. It's good to have more than one or two people to fly with. And don’t be the weakest link in the company!!!

The cell phone...uhg I have to carry my cell phone all the time. For the just in case. All I can say about this is don't miss a call even on your day off or you become the weakest link.

BUT I would only go to PDT and plan to moving on in a year. Get the time and go.

I could go on about my job but I won't. There are good things about it and bad. Its a matter of does the good out weight the bad. And always remember the grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[rchcfi]

Oh shoot, I'll throw my hat in the ring.

I passed up gigs with a few regionals to fly right seat in a Citation. I spent 2 weeks contemplating this same decision, and after much thought went for the Citation. However, remember every situation is different. So what worked for me might not work for any other person.

BUT, I would've went to the regionals if they didn't type me and allow me to seat swap to get that PIC time. The only thing holding me from upgrading officially is the insurance company. But isn't that the way it goes.

Plus I'm one of those guys that hates repetativeness (PHX-LAX-PHX-LAX, ETC). With this job I get to go to quite a few different locales. It's almost like a lottery. Phone rings - "Hey, we're heading to Brandon, Manitoba for 3 days, then the following week we're heading to Souix City, Amarillo, and Burbank." Today I get to go to Boeing Field. But I am also single and can live from a cell phone.

It all depends on what your cup of tea is.

Good luck in your decision!

Cheers,
RCHCFI

 

[rchcfi]

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention the pay is much better at my 135 job.

 

[SigAV8R]

Oh shoot, I'll throw my hat in the ring.

I passed up gigs with a few regionals to fly right seat in a Citation. I spent 2 weeks contemplating this same decision, and after much thought went for the Citation. However, remember every situation is different. So what worked for me might not work for any other person.

BUT, I would've went to the regionals if they didn't type me and allow me to seat swap to get that PIC time. The only thing holding me from upgrading officially is the insurance company. But isn't that the way it goes.

Plus I'm one of those guys that hates repetativeness (PHX-LAX-PHX-LAX, ETC). With this job I get to go to quite a few different locales. It's almost like a lottery. Phone rings - "Hey, we're heading to Brandon, Manitoba for 3 days, then the following week we're heading to Souix City, Amarillo, and Burbank." Today I get to go to Boeing Field. But I am also single and can live from a cell phone.

It all depends on what your cup of tea is.

Good luck in your decision!

Cheers,
RCHCFI

I'll second what RCHCFI said. I'm currently doing part 91 Citation work. I love it because it works for me. I'm single so living with my cell phone permanently attached to me is no big deal. I get to go to a lot of fun places and the owners pick up the tab on hotels and meals (eating steak on the road is a nice perk). For me, the QOL right now is very good. I get to live at home (no commuting) and my schedule if flexible. I can decline trips if I have something else planned or just want to take some days off. The pay could be better, but I have an opportunity for a type within a few years if I stay. I get to fly the empty legs and the captains I fly with are great. I have a variety of captains, so I don't have to worry about being holed up with the same guy every trip. The only downside is there's no benefits (medical,dental,etc). Again, it's personal preference but I would say go for the best QOL in your mind.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Here goes my 2 cents!! I say take the Citation gig every single stinking time. 100% of the time. NEVER turn down a sure thing for something that may not transpire. Why? There are 800 gazillion regional jobs out there, and regional airline jobs f-ing suck, (at least in my opinion), so they will ALWAYS be there. Hell, Xjet hires guys with 600 hours, 100 multi, and NO turbine time. If you go to the 91 gig for a little while, and hate it, big frickin deal, throw out your resume to the regionals with 2 or 3 hundred hours of jet time on it and watch how fast they call you back.

However, I can tell you that the QOL and pay is almost ALWAYS better at any 91 job than any regional airline starting job. The dog $hittiest 135 job I've ever had (my 1st job) was worlds better than my RJ job. I made more money, had more time off, WAAAAAY more nights at home, and was treated a thousand times better than my best day at Mesa. I know Mesa is at the bottom of the barrel, but I'm a BIG QOL guy. I like my nights in my own bed and my days off. You'll get a helluva a lot more of that at a 91 gig.

I quit my airline job, gave up my seniority, to come drive slowtations under part 135. I make more money, am home every night, am treated right, and can say with about 98% certainty that I'll never go back to the airlines. For some people, it's great, they love it. I hated it.

Bottom line, the regional jobs will always be there. The Citation gig won't. Take the sure thing now. You can leave to go to a regional any time you want.

 

[English]

I agree with CapnVegetto.

Take the Citation.

I have friends bailing from airlines (and not all of them are regionals) begging me to get them a flying job in charter or corporate.

Why put yourself through the regional airline thing? So you can call yourself an airline pilot? The long-forgotten prestige is not worth the misery.

 

[leardrivr]

Go for the slowtation job. It sounds like they will at least pay you something close to a liviable wage. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

 

[FN FAL]

Ok my turn,

When I started my job we were all best friends, now we hate each other. There is nothing worse then being stuck with a guy you can't stand or who can't stand you. My point is if you lock up two people in a small confined area for too long they will fight about how to part their hair or if you should pick your nose with your index finger or pinky. It's good to have more than one or two people to fly with. And don’t be the weakest link in the company!!!

The cell phone...uhg I have to carry my cell phone all the time. For the just in case. All I can say about this is don't miss a call even on your day off or you become the weakest link.

That was my biggest fear when I read the ad for this Citation XL job in Illinois. There was some construction company that was upgrading to a glass cockpit Citation and they wanted someone with an ATP and the ability to work with the new plane. I did send a resume, even though the wording of the ad kind of sent the hairs up on the back of my neck.

The chief pilot called me and wanted to set up an interview and described the flight department...they had three typed captains and I was going to be the fourth member of the flight crew. The cp and the another typed guy were going to fly the owner around and me and the new captain were going to fly the Executive Jet Management Charters around. "I see," says the blind man, tinkeling into the wind..."it all comes back to me now!" Yea, I was going to be on call and living on a pager...no drinking ever, no fun, no plans and my new name was going to be TOBY!

The phone interview went well, but then the guy mentioned on the phone that, "We're all of strong faith around here!" OK...so you guys go to church a lot...it's your right, it's your faith. But I'm now starting to realize that advertisement for the job sent hairs up the back of my neck for a reason besides the 25K starting pay. We agree to a time and a date for the interview.

A couple days later, the phone rings and this Caravan contractor for the FedEx feeders calls unsolicited and offers me a position...schedule and pay sound great, where do I sign up? I faxed a letter declining the Citation job and never looked back. And yes, my co-workers are all of strong faith...bless their hearts, but I don't have to be strapped in an aluminum tube with them, for hours without end...amen.