CHQ vs. Comair

[FurloughedAgain]

I think i'll pass. I got into this discussion to defend your F/Os, not to argue with you about your worth.

Quite frankly, based on your stellar communication skills, I think you're overpaid.

 

[rptrain]

I no longer aspire to be a jerk....

I've got news for you, dude.

 

[embraerdriver]

lol- i'm bowing out.

 

[nimtz]

Here's some more crap for those of you trying to decide where you might want to work................ more holier than thou crap!

Holier than thou crap! Dude you're a fricking moron. So that's all you want is your captain seat in your little jet and you're content! I'll take the Comair attitude any day over some tool who says, 'dude upgrades are quick and I can hold commutable lines, that's all that counts.'

The Comair MEC is speaking a simple truth that even a pee brain like you should know, we are all doing mainline work for far less then half the compensation. You seem content standing back and letting this happen, but some of us have a little more pride in the jobs we do. Some of understand that there will be little to no mainline jobs up for grabs in ten years (despite all that awesome PIC time you have), because the very jet you fly has taken over huge chunks of domestic flying. So why then do we have to slide so far off a straight compensation line? Most of us are making profits for mainline during times when the pricing model is as out of wack as it ever has been. I can guarentee you my little jet played a pretty important roll in making my mainline profitable last quarter, so I sure as h*ll don't deserve to live like I did during college. I ain't asking for 100/hour, but I can assure you 55 ain't even close!

I would tell the first management punk to take a flying f*ck if they said 'we have to remain competitive in cost if we want to obtain further flying or even keep what we have.' I'd say why don't you ask mainline management to take Southwest exec wages then we'll talk. I would much rather take a strike and put the place out of business then keep our status quo for the next upswing in the industry. I have long hoped that most of us at this level would join me in this arguement, but unfortunately there are enough idiots like you running around.

Holier then thou, whatever! Don't disrespect a pilot group that walked then line for 90 days and brought a shred of dignity down to this level of the profession. You certainly haven't done jacksh*t for it...

 

[likeitis]

embraerdriver

Your inexperience in this profession shows like a million candlelight power spotlight in a closet. I think you should maybe just shut your trap until you grow up and get a clue about what this industry is about. Your 3.5 years is laughable.

Everything that the Comair MEC wrote was 100% right on.

I fly with people who have more logged time in the lav than you have total.

God forbid you for once look out for the profession instead of yourself.

 

[nimtz]

I despise everything major airlines represent. I am ashamed of what "you " think were worth. Tell me something, why not pay a bus driver $250,000 per year? It is more dangerous to ride the bus isn't it?

NYC bus drivers make roughly 55K a year with a hell of alot better benefits then you and I can get. That's more then some of your captains make in a year. You really embarass the whole CHQ pilot group with the junk you spew.

 

[TWAER]

Re: schizophrenic much?

You CHQ guys don't know whether you're comin' or goin'.

On the one hand we have industry savvy TWAER, who reminds us:


but then his partner in crime, embraerdriver, opines:

UM I speak for myself thank you. This thread, like many others has turned into a us vs. them mentality. Some fricken guy want info on both CHQ and Comair. Didn't know we had to turn this into a who's friken fault it is the airline industry sucks. I'll give you 4 $%cking reasons and two less buildings in New York. If you don't think this industry is all about timing, you really have no clue.

Partner in crime? That's pretty good.

 

[aewanabe]

Embraer driver, take a pill bro. I think we have a lot of great things going for us here at the "Chicken Taco", but it's a stretch to say we're "better than Comair". Most of you know I get pretty opiniated when someone accuses me of providing an inferior product because I work for a contract carrier, BUT that doesn't translate back into hatin' on Comair. I read that same post by the Comair MEC on our union board; it didn't sound like "holier than thou" crap, it sounded like a good presentation on the state of the industry and the specific concerns for Comair pilots and DCI generally.

Fact : I will probably be a captain before someone hired the same date as me at Comair. PROBABLY. There are no growth guarantees, based on the current known airframe deliveries it will be another 4.5 years before I upgrade. I don't judge my upgrade chances based on the phantom UA codeshare or E170s.

Fact : We have more base choices here at CHQ. Because of that, I am off reserve and averaging 15 days off per month; despite being very junior I have excellent seniority within my base. HOWEVER, the average life for some of our smaller bases is currently 18 months. (See BOS, PIT). More opportunity, more risk of base closure and displacement as our partners' needs change (especially USAirways).

Fact : Benefits are nearly a wash. Especially with the new contract, I think we pay a little less for slightly better insurance. I think Comair's travel benes on Ma Delta are somewhat better... all you guys who keep trumpeting how great Airways is to travel on, remember that we pay for those term passes, and upgrades on US are NOT free; (unless you jumpseat). And mainline Delta is definitely a better travel product than mainline Airways.

Fact : If you're gonna be an 8-year F/O, you will make more money at Comair. You're currently much less likely to be an F/O that long here at CHQ, but there are no guarantees. We have more opportunities with the multiple codeshares, but more risk as well. Hell, as we speak PHL guys are bitching because we've lost a ton of Philly flying to, you guessed it, Mesa.

Sorry this is a little long. I'm proud of CHQ. I voted yes, I think we did a great job improving what we already had, but we definitely need to keep working for more. I think some of my bretheren on hear get fed up with the contract-carrier bashing and respond by attacking the Wholly-owned guys; but we need to look at reality, the actual good and bad of our situation. That's the only way we'll continue to improve it.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Gents, somebody is right here. And that person can claim his trophy or beer or prize on January 1st ... 2014!!! See, nobody really knows, you makes your best guess and takes your best shot and see where it all plays out.

This business is like a horse race. You place your career butt on the horse (airline) which looks to win, place, or show. Some horses start out fast and then fade in the stretch. Some horses pull up lame (Chapter 11) while others are turned into glue (Chapter 7). The track is treacherous (economic variations) and then there are the intangibles which no one could reasonabley predict (9/11).

Comair has been a steady performer and has emerged at the front of the pack not by any particularly great acumen, but the simple fact of the other leaders' attrition (Air Wisconsin, Henson, or Ransome, for example). Now, Chautauqua has challenged for the lead. Their staying power remains to seen but they seem to be going like gangbusters these days.

This choice is all the more confounding by being tied to when you get hired. Getting hired by Comair in 1999 might present to a pilot many more opportunites than a new hire in 2003. Getting hired by CHQ looks to be more promising because they can more likely continue their exponential growth rate than does CMR whose growth curve is leveling off to say the least. That's the rational choice since pay and benefits really aren't that far apart the first seven or eight years.

But this isn't a rational business is it? It's a gamble.

 

[ERJDRVR]

I am gonna go out on a limb here........

COMAIR has better looking flight attendants than we do @ CHQ...

 

[ACE]

FlyComairJets and aewanabe have given the best advice I have heard so far on this thread. Now for my two cents. Pick the airline that you will be happier at for the rest of your life. Don't think of it as a stepping stone. There are no stepping stones for new guys right now and there will not be for a long long time. There are thousands of furloughed pilots that will take the jobs at JB, SWA, etc.... I would pick by quality of life at this point in the industry. Don't pick by deliveries and upgrades that may or may not happen. Look at bases, days off, commuting, health insurance, retiremant benefits etc.. Good luck with your decision.

 

[kngarthur]

1. Stability. Chautaqua can piss of one codeshare partner and you are furloughed.

2. Retirement: whether you stay or not your vested in retirement of 2% a year, increasing 2% every year until 20 years. You are vested in 401K after two years match 1/2 of first 5%.

3. S3 status with no service charges, and 6 s2 days a year. 18 transoceanic non service charge days, unlimited svs. fee transoceanic days.

4. Insurance, not saying its great but it sure is better than some others I pay about 40 a pay period for insurance. I think it is 1x earnings for life w/ options up to 6, $15 copay for dr. 7 for rx dental covers 100% everything except cosmetic up to 1500 a year. I think after all the work I had done this year it is impossible to go over 1500. They pay your physical, and a bunch of other stuff i just don't know about.

5. Training, they do all their training themselves own sims instructors and ground school. It is basically the same training as a major.

6. Pay

7. Commuter policy. Ok, everybody has one but ours is pretty good, list two fligths that show up a half hour before sign in. If you don't make it or there is a mechanical you are not penalized it is just like a drop. Also, with the exception of MCO, DFW, BNA Cincinnati is a pretty easy place to commute to.

8. Work rules and trip rigs. This is the main reason for the strike. Still some improving to do but beats the hell out of my last airline. Average 14 days off a month with average of 78 hours pay and 1.65 per diem w/ 100% deadhead and displacement pay regardless of completion factor.

9. You don't have to write on the yoke which airline you are when you make your pa.

10. You might upgrade quicker over there, you might not. Planned growth is just that planned. Nobody really knows until the jet shows up on property. The top 8 reasons are facts the last 2 fiction. Who knows both airlines may not even exist in 10 years. See you around.

Bump!!!!

 

[The Drizzle]

At most internet forums, bumping old threads in the spirit of poor fellowship results in a perma-ban. Why is this not true here?

 

[WateryGrave]

Didn't they already ban Kngarthur for life..... WTF?

 

[kngarthur]

At most internet forums, bumping old threads in the spirit of poor fellowship results in a perma-ban. Why is this not true here?

Okay then, hide your head in the sand! You can't ban me! It's unamerican. You can't just ban people, just because you don't like theie viewpoint. Okay Hitler?????!!!!! This is a very interesting thread. If you don't like me then add me to your ignore list. That way you can only read the things you that give you a warm fuzzy feeling.

I also think a MAJORITY of the Unions are a bunch of thugs, and communist!

Moderator reviewed-no action.

 

[shamrock]

I also think a MAJORITY of the Unions are a bunch of thugs, and communist!

Looks like someone is channeling D'Angelo.

 

[goodpilotithink]

How's about a CHQ reply now.......

1- At least we are not wholly owned and if we do piss off one codeshare partner we have two left. For the record, this has never happened. At comair if you piss off delta they transfer the flying and you stay in the right seat till you cave.

2- Retirement? Our 401k is acceptable and actually is higher when it tops out. Life is 2x annual earnings, $15 per pay period for Blue cross, Blue shield PPO.$10 co pay! Vision, Dental, medicals etc. I don't think comair is better on this except for the retirement.

3-S3 for us as well so long as you are based at a DAL base. USA travel benny's are better in all honesty. AAL if you choose St Louis.

4- See above.

5- Training- 8 weeks/ $125per week. Not 12 weeks like comair. Training done at Flight safety. I have no complaints.

6- Pay??? It is not much higher and If you disregard the FO pay(because you will be a captain in 2 years) You actually make more at CHQ.

7- Commuter policy is the same everywhere.

8- No rigs, 1.45 perdiem, 81 hours avg/month, 75% deadhead pay, and our completion factor does affect our line guarantee. 2-3 times a year we miss the 98.5% goal. Oh did I mention that I have never( in 1.5 years) cancelled for mtc! New BIRDS!!

9- We had 11 J31's, 26 SF340's, and 3 ERJ's in June 2000. We now have 82 ERJ's! Who else has had that transitional, growth despite rough times. NO ONE!

10- Bases! Where do you want to go? MCO, RIC, GSO, CMH, IND, STL, LGA, PHL. CVG for comair- thats it!

11- No junior manning!!

12- Stability??? Dude we have been in business since 1973- That's before comair, thank you very much!!

13- Come on now!! You fly primarily one codeshare depending on where your based.

It's all about the decisions you make!

Oh yeah Comair is being asked to take concessions, in return for growth. That should help you sleep.

My personal belief is that the pilot group is showing a little dividing at comair due to the age difference. Lots of silverhairs at comair.

Yes, they under cut us to get shiny new jets. Bunch of idiots. We go strike to win our contract, and these idiots under cut us and as a result, we are all racing to the bottom.

Shame on you people.

There are some facts.

 

[dogtown]

How's about a CHQ reply now.......

1- At least we are not wholly owned and if we do piss off one codeshare partner we have two left. For the record, this has never happened. At comair if you piss off delta they transfer the flying and you stay in the right seat till you cave.

2- Retirement? Our 401k is acceptable and actually is higher when it tops out. Life is 2x annual earnings, $15 per pay period for Blue cross, Blue shield PPO.$10 co pay! Vision, Dental, medicals etc. I don't think comair is better on this except for the retirement.

3-S3 for us as well so long as you are based at a DAL base. USA travel benny's are better in all honesty. AAL if you choose St Louis.

4- See above.

5- Training- 8 weeks/ $125per week. Not 12 weeks like comair. Training done at Flight safety. I have no complaints.

6- Pay??? It is not much higher and If you disregard the FO pay(because you will be a captain in 2 years) You actually make more at CHQ.

7- Commuter policy is the same everywhere.

8- No rigs, 1.45 perdiem, 81 hours avg/month, 75% deadhead pay, and our completion factor does affect our line guarantee. 2-3 times a year we miss the 98.5% goal. Oh did I mention that I have never( in 1.5 years) cancelled for mtc! New BIRDS!!

9- We had 11 J31's, 26 SF340's, and 3 ERJ's in June 2000. We now have 82 ERJ's! Who else has had that transitional, growth despite rough times. NO ONE!

10- Bases! Where do you want to go? MCO, RIC, GSO, CMH, IND, STL, LGA, PHL. CVG for comair- thats it!

11- No junior manning!!

12- Stability??? Dude we have been in business since 1973- That's before comair, thank you very much!!

13- Come on now!! You fly primarily one codeshare depending on where your based.

It's all about the decisions you make!

Oh yeah Comair is being asked to take concessions, in return for growth. That should help you sleep.

My personal belief is that the pilot group is showing a little dividing at comair due to the age difference. Lots of silverhairs at comair.

Uhh...do you actually work here because its 4 code shares, AA, DAL, US, UAL, and we haven't had blue cross for like 2 years. Also I think we have around 95ERJ's now.