China's private airlines seek foreign pilots

[Flightjock30]

CHINESE AIRLINES SEEK FOREIGN PILOTS
You've heard all about the so-called pilot shortage but so far all
your various ratings and endorsements have you flying the grill at your
local McDonalds. How about trading your plastic fork for chopsticks --
and maybe a shot at right seat in an airliner. The first private
airlines are taking flight in China and they'll need at least 8,000
pilots over the next 10 years. Since there is virtually no GA system to
produce those pilots, the airlines must look abroad. "China is short of
captains and co-pilots," said Liu Jieyin, chairman of Okay Airways,
China's first privately held airline. "We offer young foreign pilots an
opportunity to grow."

 

[wrxpilot]

Required times?

 

[mattpilot]

A few 'senior' instructors at spartan just got hired by chinese airlines. They all had around 3000 hours.

As for pay, its not very good compared to US standards (i think like 50k a year for captain), but its a lot when your in china.

As for the contract - its a minimum of 6 years or you need to pay the training costs.

I'm sure each airline has its own conditions, but they are probably all quite similar.

 

[EagleRJ]

Are you required to join the Party?

 

[TrafficInSight]

how about the maintenance? we've all heard... stories

 

[mattpilot]

how about the maintenance? we've all heard... stories

well.... thats between you and god

 

[Kawasumi_Kichou]

Y'all should start studying:

Airplane:　飛行機
Captain:　機長
F/O:　　　　副操縦士

Oh wait, that's Japanese. Same writing, different usage...

 

[mattpilot]

CHINESE AIRLINES SEEK FOREIGN PILOTS
You've heard all about the so-called pilot shortage but so far all
your various ratings and endorsements have you flying the grill at your
local McDonalds. How about trading your plastic fork for chopsticks --
and maybe a shot at right seat in an airliner. The first private
airlines are taking flight in China and they'll need at least 8,000
pilots over the next 10 years. Since there is virtually no GA system to
produce those pilots, the airlines must look abroad. "China is short of
captains and co-pilots," said Liu Jieyin, chairman of Okay Airways,
China's first privately held airline. "We offer young foreign pilots an
opportunity to grow."

Btw.. you got a link for this to the source? Thanks...

 

[414Flyer]

avweb.com

 

[mattpilot]

So how does one go about applying for okay airways? I can't find a web presence.

They just hired a swiss dude... maybe my austrian arse has a chance?

 

[bafanguy]

Just scanned all the major crew leasing company websites and don't see anything that looks like any of the Chinese upstart carriers. All I can find is basically the same articles put in many different news outlets.


If they've already taken on some expats, there must be a way to contact them. No, Googling didn't yield anything either. Okay isn't the only new Chinese carrier. Spring Air, United Eagle Airlines, and Huaxia Airlines are also on the horizon.
Now the CAAC pilots know how the US legacy pilots feel !! How do you say "hahahah" in Chinese ? Probably, "hahahah". I speak many languages...as long as all I have to do is laugh.

 

[dseagrav]

Oh wait, that's Japanese. Same writing, different usage...

Are you sure that's right? I thought プロの酔っぱらい was Captain, and プロの着陸装置オペレータ was F/O...

 

[Stifler's Mom]

What's the Chinese Government's stance on Union membership?

 

[Bluto]

Are you required to join the Party?

No, but if you ever have an accident or incident you will be publically executed....well, that's what I heard...

 

[Kawasumi_Kichou]

Many countries' laws provide for jail time and/or capital punishment for fatal accidents if negligence can be proved. Italy just put four more officials of Enav (Italy's ATC provider) in jail for allowing conditions that contributed to a fatal runway incursion in Milan in 2001. Altogether, eight Enav officials received sentences ranging from three to eight years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4348077.stm

dseagrav, I love it! Where's HIMS when you need it? And yes, I've flown with a few captains that preached the "gear up, flaps up, shut up" school of CRM. ^_^

 

[dseagrav]

dseagrav, I love it! Where's HIMS when you need it? And yes, I've flown with a few captains that preached the "gear up, flaps up, shut up" school of CRM. ^_^

That was pretty good, wasn't it? I impressed me. ^_^ I wonder if anyone else is going to figure this out... Anyway, I'm still very lousy with Japanese - Take away my dictionary and tables and I'm effectively illiterate, and I can't write at all yet. But I'm learning! (Very slowly...)

 

[mattpilot]

all i see is boxes... :/

 

[dseagrav]

all i see is boxes... :/

Yeah, that's what you get if you don't have Japanese language enabled on your PC. Japanese characters are two bytes wide, and ASCII characters are one. Your PC doesn't know how to handle the text, so it draws boxes (or upper-ASCII garbage) instead.

 

[bobbysamd]

Chinese airline hiring

CHINESE AIRLINES SEEK FOREIGN PILOTS
You've heard all about the so-called pilot shortage but so far all
your various ratings and endorsements have you flying the grill at your
local McDonalds. How about trading your plastic fork for chopsticks --
and maybe a shot at right seat in an airliner. The first private
airlines are taking flight in China and they'll need at least 8,000
pilots over the next 10 years. Since there is virtually no GA system to
produce those pilots, the airlines must look abroad. "China is short of
captains and co-pilots," said Liu Jieyin, chairman of Okay Airways,
China's first privately held airline. "We offer young foreign pilots an
opportunity to grow."

Well, we all know about pilot shortages. Seems like a lot of trouble if you like good Chinese!

Seriously, based on knowledge and experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the requirements include high turbine time, high turbine PIC time and high time in type - just as with other Far East airlines that hire expats. Moreover, it wouldn't surprise me if, eventually, Okay will contract with such places as FSI in Vero and ATCA in Phoenix, etc., to train its pilots ab initio. In other words, if you have 1500-500 and are frustrated because the regionals aren't calling, don't expect any calls from Peking.

Speaking of good Chinese, sesame chicken, lemon chicken, emerald scallops and spring rolls are four of my favorites. <yum>

 

[bafanguy]

CHINESE AIRLINES SEEK FOREIGN PILOTS
"China is short of
captains and co-pilots," said Liu Jieyin, chairman of Okay Airways,
China's first privately held airline. "We offer young foreign pilots an
opportunity to grow."

That last sentence, coming from the chairman, doesn't sound like he's talking about guys with 10,000 TTL with 5,000 737 PIC. I agree that most agency ads I've seen for Asian carriers require considerable experience. From what I'm able to read, China has some pretty big airline growth plans and won't get nationals to fill all the slots assuming all the planned airlines actually come to be. Okay just flew their first flight and has already taken expats onboard.

The problem isn't the supply of expat pilots with superior qualifications. The problem might be getting them to come there for $2500/mo. It'll be interesting to see how they handle this.

Of course, for a young person with nothing to tie him down at home, this might be a great adventure for a few years.

 

[mattpilot]

the instructors from spartan who went(are going) there all don't have any turbine. As i've said, they all got around 3000 TT & 100-200 multi.

Also, the chinese students that train at Spartan all go directly to the right seat of 737's and A310's after 250 hours in cessnas in 1 year.

So why wouldn't they hire foreigners with low times to fill the slots, if they can't fill them, themselves?

 

[bafanguy]

Also, the chinese students that train at Spartan all go directly to the right seat of 737's and A310's after 250 hours in cessnas in 1 year.

matt,

What Chinese company is sending their ab initio students to Spartan ? The concept of ab initio "cadet" pilots is nothing new. Historically, it's not been done in the US because of the huge supply of experienced pilots here.

I would imagine these new Chinese private airlines will need to go to the cadet concept if they can't find enough experienced nationals ready to fill the spots. The lead time on this, however, is rather long since you can't use these pilots in PIC positions. The need for expat captains may go on for a while.

I don't know how CAAC gets its pilots ( their Air Force ? ). I rode on CAAC many years ago and some of the pilots looked like children.

 

[mattpilot]

I don't know the name of the airlines .. especially not how to spell them. But its about a dozen different airlines. Sehnzu comes to mind, but don't quote me on the spelling

Anyhow.. they've been doing it for a few years now at spartan. They come here on a 12 month contract (usually takes 14 months though), fly the 152, the 172, a bit of 172RG, then a few hours in a seminole, then a few in the kingair C90 - then BAM they are in china flying rightseat in a big jet. Those chinese mofo's are pretty cocky about it too

 

[bafanguy]

Those chinese mofo's are pretty cocky about it too

matt,

My guess from pprune is that these cadet positions are highly competitive as the job itself seems to be comparatively a pretty good one in these Asian countries. The guys who make it are likely proud of themselves ( maybe too proud ? ).

That's OK...seeing them thrash around for a while in the right seat of a 737 back home might be just the serving of humble pie they need.

 

[mattpilot]

My guess from pprune is that these cadet positions are highly competitive as the job itself seems to be comparatively a pretty good one in these Asian countries. The guys who make it are likely proud of themselves ( maybe too proud ? ).

Nope.... they don't choose their job. Its chosen for them. Most chinese i've talked to don't even want to be here - odd as it may sound. They get selected based on their test scores. Most of them are between 24-27 years old (although they look like they are in thier mid-teens) and have a "college equivilant" school education.

The reason they do it is, not only because they have to, but refusual (and failure) to do so brings shame to their family. And thats actually a very good motivator the instructors use to get them to learn. No one wants to bring shame to their family

Also, its apperent in most that they've been chosen based off of their test scores, because they flying skills simply su.ck. Chinese philosophy is "achievement is seen as dependent more on concentration, effort, and persistence, than on talent." - to quote out of my psych book .

 

[bafanguy]

Nope.... they don't choose their job. Its chosen for them. Most chinese i've talked to don't even want to be here - odd as it may sound.

Matt,

Now that you mention it, I can remember from being a tourist in China about 20 years ago and hearing some people say their jobs had been chosen for them. You'd think they'd see why that HR policy is for the birds !! What a shame to waste a shot at a flying career on someone who doesn't want it.

I do believe that, in other parts of Asia, these cadet positions are sought after. Maybe someone who knows more can chime in. Lufthansa has run a system like this as long as I can remember.

 

[ultrarunner]

No, but if you ever have an accident or incident you will be publically executed....well, that's what I heard...

Dude, when they crash over there, they do it right...you'll be dead...no hanging needed.

 

[mattpilot]

did i tell you guys about this one time, where a chinese landed a 152 at Tinker AFB (oklahoma) this last saturday?

 

[typhoonpilot]

Interesting development if the Chinese actually start employing foreign pilots like Cathay does. It could be a good opportunity for a young pilot as some have already said, but they'll never make the money that the Cathay pilots make. I would go to a Cathay S.O. position before one of these for that and many other reasons.

In regards to how they fly and how much money they make I can tell you, based on my experience giving recurrent training to China Northern Airline pilots, that there is an equal mix of good and bad. A few years back I did the recurrent and proficiency checks for their MD-90 chief pilot and a young ( 28 year old ) captain. They were both excellent pilots and I wouldn't hesitate to ride on their airplane anyday in any weather. Compare that to some of the young F.O.s and older captains and they were hopeless. It was all you could do after a week of recurrent to keep them from crashing after a V1 cut. How they ever passed an initial type ride is bewildering.

They used to tell me that an F.O. made about $500 per month and a Captain about $1000 per month. I'm sure they had some fringe benefits, probably a subsidized apartment and other things that made their standard of living higher than the normal worker.

Working in China would be a blast, but to stick with my old adage, I'd only ever go as a Captain.


TP

 

[AA717driver]

Funny this should come up. I was in China a couple of weeks ago and talked to our handler for a half hour or so while waiting for the pax. He is a dispatcher for China Eastern (MD90's). He told me the same thing that students are tested after high school and their course of study is chosen for them.

I thought China was was ok. Many people speak english (in the Eastern cities) and they were very friendly (particularly two young girls outside the 7-11 in Shenzhen. They kept saying "young girl and massage" I don't quite know what to make of that...)

I'd like to go back and spend more than 12 hours in some of the cities.TC

P.S.--Dragon Air is kind of a domestic Chinese/HKG version of Cathay. Sounds like it's a good operator. They have A320/319's.