Chicago Tribune: UAL/CAL merger looking like US Air

[nimtz]

...you guys have been too busy beating up junior Skywest pilots instead of taking care of your own problems.

How about you guys get Wendy and Jay to kiss and make up before you go after junior Skywest pilots.....

Kind words from a respectable elder who has had a fulfilling career featuring topping out at 100K w/weekends off. Thanks for the good advise on collective bargaining Joe! I know your depth of knowledge has helped you score a lucrative lifestyle at ASA.

 

[Flyforyou]

If this goes bad, it will look NOTHING like US Air. It will be far worse.

 

[T45Flyer]

Future Headline

"Southwest/Airtran acquisition even worse than UAL/CAL merger that was even worse than US Air/America West!"

Gary Kelly should have learned he needed to pay u$ off, to play nice!

-T45

 

[T45Flyer]

Interesting tactic. And this is between two ALPA carriers!

Labor discord is creeping into the newly merged United Airlines, where union leaders are at loggerheads over how to pay pilots who fly the carrier's largest aircraft on international flights, sources told the Tribune.

Reaching a new collective bargaining with pilots is a priority for United CEO Jeff Smisek, who believes that fostering labor harmony is paramount if the world's largest carrier is to provide stellar customer service.

Smisek has set an ambitious deadline for achieving labor peace: wrapping up contract talks with all of the Chicago-based carrier's unions by late 2011, when federal officials are expected to give the go-ahead to formally combine United and Continental's flight operations.

But in a setback, leaders of the separate pilots unions told members last week that they have been deadlocked since September on how to structure pay, especially on the Boeing 747 jumbo jets flown by United but not Continental. For airline captains, compensation and career progression typically is linked to the aircraft they fly: The larger the jet, the higher the pay.

It's not unusual for merging pilot unions to battle over compensation and seniority, the pecking order that determines career expectations and quality of life of their members, labor experts said.

"There is no equitable way to blend two pilot groups together; someone is always unhappy," said Louis Smith, a retired Northwest Airlines pilot and president of FltOps.com.

But it's rare for a rift to be publicly aired so early in the negotiating process. That caused some observers to question whether the United dispute could lead to a deeper schism like the bitter rift over seniority that has divided pilots of US Airways and America West Airlines since their 2005 merger.

"I think this is something that can be resolved before it goes nuclear," said Bill Swelbar, a researcher at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who has more than 20 years of airline negotiating experience. "Tensions are going to be high for everyone."

That was evident as Capt. Wendy Morse, who heads United's pilots, and Capt. Jay Pierce, her counterpart at Continental, and other leaders traded volleys in letters to members last week.

Both union chiefs accused the other of violating an agreement to follow the course set by Delta and Northwest pilots in their 2008 merger by deciding to negotiate a new contract before tackling the highly contentious process of integrating seniority lists at the two unions.

In a Nov. 1 letter, Morse told United pilots that the union leaders agree on every facet of the contract they are negotiating with management aside from pay. And on Oct. 27, management had presented a comprehensive contract proposal, with room to negotiate.

But the two unions can't agree on how to craft a compensation proposal to present to management, Morse said, and United's pilots are prepared to ask the national office of the Air Line Pilots Association to intervene.

Complicating matters is the mix of jets flown by the two pilot groups. Because it parked its Boeing 737 jets in 2009, United's fleet is tilted toward the larger jets that would be flown by pilots near the top of a seniority list.

When their financial merger closed on Oct. 1, United operated more than twice as many twin-aisle jets as Continental: 112 planes to 48. At the top of United's pay scale are roughly 300 captains of Boeing 747-400 jumbo jets, an aircraft not in Continental's fleet.

Because Continental steered clear of bankruptcy last decade, its pilots are paid more than United's. A senior captain flying Continental's largest plane, the Boeing 777, earns $167,000, according to FltOps.com, which tracks pilot pay. United's pay scale tops out at about $160,000.

Morse said that the Continental union had crafted its pay bands "in the hopes of leveling the playing field and attempting to thwart our predominantly large, wide-body fleet." Pierce accused United of trying carve out a special status for its Boeing 747 jets.

Inflaming matters, according to United leaders, were comments by Jayson Baron, who leads Continental pilots at its Newark, N.J., hub. Addressing a September meeting of leaders from both unions, Baron allegedly threatened to "hold up negotiations for years" and keep United pilots tied to a bankruptcy-era contract they consider draconian unless they agreed to Continental's proposed pay bands.

Baron didn't return a phone call, and a spokeswoman for the Continental pilots declined to comment, saying, "We're keeping this within the union."

Labor consultant Jerry Glass said that matter was probably best left to ALPA's national office, especially since recently elected union chief Lee Moak, of Delta, engineered the 2008 pilot deal with Northwest.

"The union has been incredibly creative over the years in resolving exactly that kind of dispute," said Glass, a former US Airways executive.

[email protected]

-T45

 

[Bringupthebird]

You guys haven't mailed poop, you don't get to be compared to the US Air/AWA merger!

Mailed poop? They elected a pile to represent 2/3 of them!

Fearless
East
Coast
Entitlement
Society

Formerly USAPA

 

[chppr5]

It isn't just the different 747 pay scale. It is the insistence that this be part of the SLI. If it is, then 400 UAL pilots get stapled to the top of the combined list.

So with that logic, banding the 319/320 with the 735/733 will staple the 1200 Airbus pilots to the bottom of the CAL list. It goes both ways if it's part of the SLI.

 

[Skippy]

Its about widebody vs narrowbody, how many heavy aircraft does each have, carrer expectations, etc.

Cal- u really want to stall negotiations for years? Fine ual mgmnt will have 70 seaters in every cal domicle by summer of '11 and find another way to screw everyone with low payrates for an even longer period of time. Ual s the widebody airline with the route structure and ( unfortunately bankruptcy provisions too). Cal has the newer narrowbody 737s and pay.
Pretty sad they cant find a happy medium b/w pay/ benes/ compensation/ carrer expectations, and seniority. Its as if they are trying to reinvent the fn wheel

I say have a fedex/ups type pay band
Narrow body, widebody , and 90 seater cap and fo pay bands

 

[100/hour/5y]

Cal- u really want to stall negotiations for years? Fine ual mgmnt will have 70 seaters in every cal domicle by summer of '11 and find another way to screw everyone with low payrates for an even longer period of time.

Not:

SCOPE UPDATE
This is an update on the status of management’s plan to place the CO code on United Express flights using 70-seat jets to and from CLE, EWR and IAH. As previously communicated, less than two weeks ago, we met with the Company to clearly express our objections and to formally request their contractual justification. We received their response last week, at which time we also received their request for a more complete explanation of why we believe their actions are a violation of Section 1 of the Continental CBA.

We have now provided that to the Company, along with our steadfast insistence that they confirm to us, no later than this Wednesday, Nov. 10, that they have ceased and desisted with their plans. As I have said before and I will repeat now—we are prepared to use all appropriate legal vehicles to bring resolution to this issue and ultimately prevent outsourcing in violation of our current CBA. We will provide you with additional updates as more information becomes available.

One Union. One Voice.
Blast mail from:
Capt. Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman

 

[taxicabdriver]

I will be surprised if the worthless union can do anything.....They enjoy taking money, but when it comes to doing anything all they do is blow smoke.....Very cautiously optimistic....

 

[Skippy]

This is going to turn into aer lingus.... Part II