Chicago Tribune: UAL/CAL merger looking like US Air

[JoeMerchant]

Not:

SCOPE UPDATE
This is an update on the status of management’s plan to place the CO code on United Express flights using 70-seat jets to and from CLE, EWR and IAH. As previously communicated, less than two weeks ago, we met with the Company to clearly express our objections and to formally request their contractual justification. We received their response last week, at which time we also received their request for a more complete explanation of why we believe their actions are a violation of Section 1 of the Continental CBA.

We have now provided that to the Company, along with our steadfast insistence that they confirm to us, no later than this Wednesday, Nov. 10, that they have ceased and desisted with their plans. As I have said before and I will repeat now—we are prepared to use all appropriate legal vehicles to bring resolution to this issue and ultimately prevent outsourcing in violation of our current CBA. We will provide you with additional updates as more information becomes available.

One Union. One Voice.
Blast mail from:
Capt. Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman

Regarding the bold underline part....:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

A simple reading of the posts between Jay and Wendy prove this statement alone is BS....

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Okay I love this. I'm gonna take a shot at this. We will have a contract by January. You heard it here first. The union will figure it out once they realize what A-holes UAL mgmt is. United we win divided we fail and fall.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Okay I love this. I'm gonna take a shot at this. We will have a contract by January. You heard it here first. The union will figure it out once they realize what A-holes UAL mgmt is. United we win divided we fail and fall.

You will fail....

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

So with that logic, banding the 319/320 with the 735/733 will staple the 1200 Airbus pilots to the bottom of the CAL list. It goes both ways if it's part of the SLI.

Where do you get the idea that we want the A320 to be banded as small narrowbody? We don't have them on the propety but even in our current POS contract it's listed with the 757 and 737-800/900 as large narrowbody. Only the A319 from UAL's fleet would be small narrowbody.

 

[chppr5]

Where do you get the idea that we want the A320 to be banded as small narrowbody? We don't have them on the propety but even in our current POS contract it's listed with the 757 and 737-800/900 as large narrowbody. Only the A319 from UAL's fleet would be small narrowbody.

From the NC. They may have been in your original proposal before the merger anouncment, but are they listed in your current contract? Also you have to look at the aircrafts capability not just number of seats when it comes to pay. The 319 is a coast to coast aircraft, the 735/733 doesn't compare. UAL paid the Airbus more than the 727 when we had them.

 

[Plug]

You will fail....

Really JB? Sounds like the reasoning of a scab in the making. Great attitude, good luck fighting over the scraps.

 

[nimtz]

From the NC. They may have been in your original proposal before the merger anouncment, but are they listed in your current contract? Also you have to look at the aircrafts capability not just number of seats when it comes to pay. The 319 is a coast to coast aircraft, the 735/733 doesn't compare. UAL paid the Airbus more than the 727 when we had them.

Yeah well the 700 is coast to coast, but it pays SNB. Sucks but not really worth striking over. Most of the time the QOL of doing a transcon makes up for the stink of pay, but that's up to how you bid.

So I do not misunderstand you chppr5, someone on NC told you that CAL wants the narrow body banding you have mentioned? If that's the case then why did your NC come to an agreement with ours on the compensation section last month? Either whoever told you about the banding is misrepresenting the facts or your NC agreed that banding the Buses to SNB was satisfactory. Maybe I'm missing something, but somewhere the facts aren't lining up.

 

[chppr5]

Yeah well the 700 is coast to coast, but it pays SNB. Sucks but not really worth striking over. Most of the time the QOL of doing a transcon makes up for the stink of pay, but that's up to how you bid.

So I do not misunderstand you chppr5, someone on NC told you that CAL wants the narrow body banding you have mentioned? If that's the case then why did your NC come to an agreement with ours on the compensation section last month? Either whoever told you about the banding is misrepresenting the facts or your NC agreed that banding the Buses to SNB was satisfactory. Maybe I'm missing something, but somewhere the facts aren't lining up.

And that was why the UAL MEC objected. Not sure why the NC agreed, but there are more junior guys at the LEC's which, IMHO, had sway with the MEC. The banding came back from the NC's the 764 was banded with the 777/744 and the 319/320 with the 735/733, which isn't fair to the junior pilots at UAL when it comes to the SLI (just as you guys weren't happy with the 744 in it's own scale). Look for the 777/744 to be banded without the 764 and the 733/735 alone. Hopefully they will have at least 6 catagories. Banding is not good for us, it promotes stagnation because it decreases the economic reasons for movement. This is negotiations, they should have never made their fight public. Both sides are thumping their chests, hopefully they will come up with a fix tomorrow.

 

[IAHERJ]

You will fail....

Not worth it...

 

[whatitdoing?]

If this goes bad, it will look NOTHING like US Air. It will be far worse.

You are correct sir. This loggerhead is all on the UAL side. Sorry, it's a fact. They can spin it all they want, but it's just spinning in circles.

 

[Hvy]

You are correct sir. This loggerhead is all on the UAL side. Sorry, it's a fact. They can spin it all they want, but it's just spinning in circles.

If you believe what your MEC Chairman at CAL is saying... Perhaps you should ask your fellow pilots that know him what they think and do a little investigation. Who was the guy that just tried to abandon his pilot group after promising not to, for a shot at national office? Which guy has brought these negotiations to a public forum? Which guy in the past had aspirations for a top management position? Which guy has flamed his fellow MEC folks in public? Which guy has threatened to hold everything thing up for years? Hmmmm....... Is THAT the actions of somebody you trust?

 

[nimtz]

And that was why the UAL MEC objected. Not sure why the NC agreed, but there are more junior guys at the LEC's which, IMHO, had sway with the MEC. The banding came back from the NC's the 764 was banded with the 777/744 and the 319/320 with the 735/733, which isn't fair to the junior pilots at UAL when it comes to the SLI (just as you guys weren't happy with the 744 in it's own scale). Look for the 777/744 to be banded without the 764 and the 733/735 alone. Hopefully they will have at least 6 catagories. Banding is not good for us, it promotes stagnation because it decreases the economic reasons for movement. This is negotiations, they should have never made their fight public. Both sides are thumping their chests, hopefully they will come up with a fix tomorrow.

If the above is true regarding Bus I would be demanding a recall of the whole negotiating committee. Also if I am not mistaken Wendy supported the
Compensation proposal so I'd ask for recall as well. Simple logic dictates that the 320 should pay about what the 800 does and the 319 pays the 700.
Not sure what is true or false rt now, but both sides look idiotic and need 2 find an agreeable compromise. The battle w Jeff is going to require our A+ game face.

 

[bizicmo]

Every time I see how "wendy supported the Compensation proposal," it makes me wonder if she really did support it like everyone is assuming or just thought it wasn't bad enough for a flat out rejection. I have always looked at the events as the MEC chair approval for MEC consideration, which was then rejected. I wouldn't really jump on Wendy about this.
Now there are some differences in the UAL MEC versus UAL NC and that is what is holding up getting a new contract right now. Those need to be worked out and that's something only the UAL crowd can do. The CAL side has nothing to do with this. Once the UAL side can get their team all on the same page then let the two NC's come together and get this thing done.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Really JB? Sounds like the reasoning of a scab in the making. Great attitude, good luck fighting over the scraps.

United Express is allowed to operate 70 seaters, and you will be United when this is all said and done. The very best you can hope for is that the current 70 seaters are grandfathered. Sorry, but that is how I predict this will turn out.

It doesn't surprise me that you think anyone who believes this is a "scab"...It is simply reality. The junior Skywest pilots will mostly be furloughed United pilots, and some of your cohorts are calling them "scabs" and threatening to deny them the jumpseat....What kind of "union" is this?

ALPA has been ignoring this trainwreck since long before you came to work at ASA....If you want to work WITH me, then I will work WITH you...If you want to dictate to me the terms of my job, and try and take that job, then you will have a fight...Your choice...

The ironic thing is that CAL has many real scabs who are members of ALPA, including your former MEC chairman who was a scab....Spare me the "scab" threat...it may work on some people, but I can see right through your empty threats.....

 

[Dan Roman]

This is going to turn into aer lingus.... Part II

You mean it will be con lingus?

 

[Jetjockey]

Dear Joe,

It doesn't matter what you think. You do not have a seat at the big boy table. Now go back to the kiddie table and we'll tell you what you are allowed to fly. You set your place mat at the kiddie table even though you could have opted to sit at the big table.

JJ

 

[Yuppyguppy]

dear joe,

it doesn't matter what you think. You do not have a seat at the big boy table. Now go back to the kiddie table and we'll tell you what you are allowed to fly. You set your place mat at the kiddie table even though you could have opted to sit at the big table.

Jj

good one!!!

 

[EngineThunder]

United Express is allowed to operate 70 seaters, and you will be United when this is all said and done. The very best you can hope for is that the current 70 seaters are grandfathered. Sorry, but that is how I predict this will turn out.

It doesn't surprise me that you think anyone who believes this is a "scab"...It is simply reality. The junior Skywest pilots will mostly be furloughed United pilots, and some of your cohorts are calling them "scabs" and threatening to deny them the jumpseat....What kind of "union" is this?

ALPA has been ignoring this trainwreck since long before you came to work at ASA....If you want to work WITH me, then I will work WITH you...If you want to dictate to me the terms of my job, and try and take that job, then you will have a fight...Your choice...

The ironic thing is that CAL has many real scabs who are members of ALPA, including your former MEC chairman who was a scab....Spare me the "scab" threat...it may work on some people, but I can see right through your empty threats.....

All this from a guy who PFT'd to get on at ASA, then tried to sue his way on to Delta's list with the RJDC. Classic

 

[johnsonrod]

All this from a guy who PFT'd to get on at ASA, then tried to sue his way on to Delta's list with the RJDC. Classic

I think Joe was actually offered a job at Delta, as a lav dumper.

 

[Turtle21]

Its about widebody vs narrowbody, how many heavy aircraft does each have, carrer expectations, etc. ...

I suppose DOH would have been too simple and the lawyers never make anything off of simple.