Chicago Express Union

[FO for life]

FlyChicaga:

What medical and legal benefits? i've yet to see any benefits for me or for the "regionals"

FO

 

[antney]

There are better benefits with ALPA. Not going through all of them here if your a ALPA Carrier you should know them. In terms of legal backing yes, there has been some issues with pilots here the last 6 months, and ALPA leagal part would of helped, or maybe it wouldnt. Also with the regards to Scott being here or not doesnt matter. Just cause ALPA comes on the feild doesnt mean you cant communicate with Scott, just certain standards have to be met by management through our contract. Scott is probably one of the best airline managers out there, Yes, but that doesnt mean cause of him we dont need a union. Lots of empty promises this year after all they promised during our ALPA proccess.
In one more thing Fly Chicago did you notice we didnt get a raise this spring, when in January there was a rumor about a raise. I do know that the seat reduction does hurt, but the timing is off. Our pay is reveiwed every 2 years to meet industry standards. When we got the memo on not getting the raise, they said they will reveiw it in 6 months, how ironic that will be January when the push for ALPA is here again. The company isnt stupid and they will do whatever it takes for it not to be on the feild. Yes there are possible conflicts of interest between us and mainline ATA being represented by both ALPA. But in terms of long term possibilities by being like that are endless. Did you see the scope clause they gaves us, it pretty much didnt limit us to anything. ATA pilots wants us to grow and last january we slapped them right in the face by not voting ALPA in the feild. When you get online and start flying and talking to people you will see the benefits of going ALPA, not going to state them here. But the one thing I do ask is dont be like all interns and think you owe the company anything by them hiring you with low time, no multi expereince or 121 time. You dont, they won on the deal. They know your not qualified to leave them to go any were else, Comair, Air Wisconsin, etc. They have you for atleast 2 years before you would be competitive to leave, they win on the cost. Just fly the line with an open mind, not just how your friends with Scott, and see how everything will be affected by a union, the goods and the bads. Didnt mean to ramble, but this is a serious issue in my mind.
One more thing hopefully this years orginazing committe runs it more efficentlly and not mitiltary style. Make sure you gain engough knowledge on ALPA and the union itself, instead of a words war with management.

 

[flyerc90]

ok, as a former intern, I have to get involved.....a couple of things here:

Lots of empty promises this year after all they promised during our ALPA proccess.

Like what?

I am curious what things have changed for the worst here in the last 6 months, that would have been "better" with ALPA on the property?

But the one thing I do ask is dont be like all interns and think you owe the company anything by them hiring you with low time, no multi expereince or 121 time. You dont, they won on the deal. They know your not qualified to leave them to go any were else, Comair, Air Wisconsin, etc. They have you for atleast 2 years before you would be competitive to leave, they win on the cost. Just fly the line with an open mind,

Ok, why is it that former interns are thought to be soooo much different than any other line pilot? Because some (I say some, and not all) were hired with less multi and TT than other people? And why are we not smart enough to know that we may be getting the shaft because we dont want to do anything to offend the company because we "owe the company."

I think the benefit of being the intern is that now we get to see the internal workings of why management makes the decisions they make. I had more than one pilot make a snyde remark to me about being an intern while the drive was going on....to the effect of "oh, and intern, I can see you're siding with mgmt" Yeah...thanks for automatically assuming that I can't make my own decision!

This sounds somewhat pro-mgmt.....but we (former interns) are still pilots and able to make our own observations and judgements on the good and bad of ALPA based on the info given by both parties.

 

[flyn96]

You need the legal protection, there are to many ways the company could fire you for no good reason or for making waves. Also I have a few friends that work for Windy and they said they have to be careful not to write up "too many" mx items. Waz up with that, I know if its something minor that could wait to the end of the day at the hub then write it up then. Just wonder what your guys thought was on that.

 

[flyerc90]

There have been issues in the past that may have required Legal Backing...and in those cases the company provided legal assistance to defend crewmembers. And in no case has anyone been fired for no good reason....yes, people have been let go or reprimanded....but for things that would be unforgiveable at any airline. And I am not sure what ALPA can do for a person when the Feds are involved. (This is not smart a$$....I am really "not sure")
And no one has ever gotten in trouble for making waves by writing things up...we are encouraged to write frequent ops irregularity reports, and mx items to improve our product.

 

[antney]

FLyC90 there is some things that need to better here, again I'm not saying management is terrible here cause its not, its actually really good. We have a great president and vice president. This is not why we want to go union. In terms of what will ALPA bring here, is a set standards of what us the pilots feel we need. An example is our vacation time, we get 2.5 hours credit per vaction time, but for personal, sick, or training we get 4 hours. So in reality we get less time for earened vacation then a sick or personal day that is almost impossible to ever get (personal days that is). Other things are life insurance, other medical benefits, the option of ALPA with in regards of you lossing your medical and their helping out with their own medical. I really don't even know if you work for the company or were just an intern, but things have been promised here and didnt happen. There was tlak that if we go union that we will nto get RJs here. Well we didnt go union and we still are flying saabs. I dont even beleive the union should have a factor in regards if we get new aircraft or not, but again this was done in changing peoples mind.
On the intern thing, I have talked to a lot of pilots here regardless if they were interns or not, but the guys that are low timers do feel they owe the company cause they were hired with low time when no one else would take them. And FlyChicago this doesnt mean the fact that you are not the best FO possible, but in regards to not going union since management doesnt want a union on the feild. Most interns were giving nothing, they earned their spot on the flight line by working for free for 6 months, that is payback in my mind.
Things have changed here in the past 6 months. L\Just look at our bid windows. We the FOs bid window for July was set at 81 to 86 hours. Meaning when we bid we had to fill lines up that met this requirement. I love the flying and dont mind flying more than 75 hours a month, but we dont even have a higher hourly rate for over 75 just our base rate. If we had a union, first youll probably see that we only fly 75 hours and they will have to staff our pilot group right, not just getting by like now. The reason for this is with the union we might get time and a half for over 75 your a slitghly higher hourly rate then our base pay. Also per deim is a big issue. We get 30$ for a standard overnight, and 25$ for a standup. If you fly the line here you notice that we have many days with many long sits in between flights, 2, 3 hours at times. Now the company is saying they will go to an hourly perdeim, yes stand up trips will loss out but 4 day trips will average 40$ more per trip. But then all of sudden those sits we once had will magically disappear, another way management wins. And going union might not help us in regards to sits but atleast we could have some standards in regards to pay. I go on with all the benefits and yes there are a lot of disadvantages with unions, but overall and long term I think we would be better off with them on the feild.
And FlyChicago about the bond and strenght with ATA and us if we go union will be great. When you get online youll here the things I'm talking about, but this board is not the place to bring those issues up. Your right our freindship with ATA is one fo the best, but they (pilots) wanted ALPA on our side. Since your pretty new here and maybe you do or maybe you dont if you have notice who has been getting hired from C8 to ATA is the ALPA orginazing comittee members, the people who havent have not been on it. Might sound stupid but it is happening. Maybe it could be the luck of the draw and just be that way, but its probably more than that.
C8 is a great place to work at and fly for. This company will be a growing carrier and in years to come might be know with the likes of Comair and Airwisconsin in matters of size. Being a FO know and probably not upgrading to captain for some time the union was brought here by pilots that have moved on to majors and were looking to help us out here. They have been here and know why we need the union here, they did the orginazing comittee for us junior guys and gals to benefit from, they wont get to see the benefits of an ALPA Contract. Everyone has the right to their own choice, but sometimes or we need to inform our pilot group of the needs, benefits, and future of having ALPA here and if they were not here. I beleive this time aorund it will be public knowledge and eduacation instead of you have to vote, why arent you voting YES, and did you vote yet. I beleive many of our pilots have matured from last year and majority of our FOs have been with the company for over a year to 2 years now.
Again I wasnt bashing the interns directly but I just dont want the lower time pilots to feel they owe the company by voting NO for ALPA since they received a 121 job from them. If you were hired here and got through training you EARNED that spot, noone gave you anything.

 

[FO for life]

antney:

many unions don't have extra pay for flying over guarantee - if that were the case i'd be a lot happier seeing that my lines are between 86 and 90 hours and have been for a year or more. Also if the company were to take everybody down to guarantee (75 hours) from your average of 83 hours, they would only be adding 8 pilots (based on 76 FO's - according to the current seniority list). 8 pilots isn't much, plus that's eight more people they have to train, insure, give benefits to etc. That's a lot more money in montly expenses than leaving you at 81-86 hours. If my company were to take us down to 75 hours we'd have to add rougly 55 pilots - that's a huge expense to take on. compaines want to keep costs down - making you fly a little more makes them happy and should make you happy, the extra income is nice.
As for per diem - you will still have sits. The company will not adjust the flight schedules to keep you from sitting around. next month i have a trip that on one day has sits of 3:19,2:07,1:00 - i am scheduled to fly 5:44 for a duty day of 13:30 - the company built that line to suit them - there's nothing like sitting at an outstation. Also, based on hourly per diem, you will lose out on standups ($25 per night is darn good). multiday trips you'll see a few more bucks $15 to $25 but not $40.

FO

 

[vclean]

While some interns may not feel they owe the company for hiring them, their first airline employment experience was in the front office. This exposes them to the culture and mindset of airline management. The result is residual support for management's challenges, even after flying the line. This feeling can be difficult to overcome. Remember the law of primacy from your CFI days. Things first learned....

 

[vclean]

My comments were not directed specifically at you. The interns I refer to are those who first exposure to airline ops are more easily taken in by what transpires in the office. It does not mean they cannot logically decide for themselves, but my personal observation is some of these individuals are already biased, and need to review the information and vote with the mindset of a pilot.

 

[jjbiv]

Perhaps pilots should be spending more time at the GO. How can appreciating "management's challenges" be a bad thing?

C8 is one team. ALPA would indelibly change that. Flight Ops currently has the best person possible at its helm; there are other areas of our company that are much weaker and, in fact, many other companies in our industry that are much worse off.

Finally, if anyone at C8 feels pressure to not write-up worthy squawks, please do us all a favor and call the Safety Hotline, Scott, Gary or anyone you can reach -- after you refuse to fly the a/c. Chicago Express is still very much a one crash airline and our collective future is predicated first and foremost on a perfect safety record.

joe