Chicago / Detroit Cargo Jobs

[BoDEAN]

Any tips on where I can find resources for cargo jobs in these two areas? I looked on pilotshack.com, but the listing is limited.

 

[Bluestreaker]

your gonna need at least 1200 hours to get any kind of pic 135 job, but if you wanna do some sic time you can check out central air southwest or airnet

 

[jumppilot03]

Beware Central Air Southwest is PFT.

 

[BoDEAN]

Thanks!

Airnet hires low time SIC's?
I guess I could start as SIC, and after hours multipy, upgrade?

 

[RFtech]

i do not think Airnet is hiring SICs at this time.

for more info try

www.airnet.com

 

[U-I pilot]

how do they get SIC at airnet on the pistons? They arent two pilot aircraft.... Barons, 310's, navajo's.... please explain

 

[RFtech]

check out their web site. there is info on how their sic program works (or worked)

 

[ProLine4]

Central Air Southwest is PFT?

Beware Central Air Southwest is PFT.

Wait a sec, Central Air Southwest is pay for training !? I wasn't aware of that...please explain.

Thanks

 

[Geronimo]

Central Air Southwest has a program that allows someone to pay to fly in the right seat. Therefore they are a PFT organization. I however would not hold them in the same contempt as someone like Gulfstream however. CAS operates Aero Commanders that do not require an SIC, therefore if someone wasn't paying to be there in the right seat, they would still fly with only one pilot. Unlike Gulfstream that requires an SIC, uses paying first officers instead of employing an actual qualified pilot. Gulfstream is simply taking away jobs from other pilots.

I believe that Central Air Southwest hires PICs off the street and does not require any PFT.

 

[U-I pilot]

check out their web site. there is info on how their sic program works (or worked)

Ok after looking this info over....I think the logging versus acting thing really gets me. (Refer to info below).... DO you think this would ever become an issue with FAA, future employers, your own morals....? Read below and reply....
_______________________________________________

Here is how a pilot utilizes the flight time accrued in AirNet’s program: 14 CFR 135 subparts G and H establish the requirements for testing and training of flight crew members in each type of aircraft to which they are assigned to duty by an air carrier operating under 14 CFR 135. For a flight crew member to be assigned duty, the air carrier and the pilot must comply with all requirements. This, of course, allows the pilot to be on board the aircraft as a flight crew member.

Since the pilot can now legally be a flight crew member, the pilot also can manipulate the aircraft’s flight controls. How a pilot logs the flight time is found in 14 CFR 61.51(e)1. If a pilot assigned as SIC manipulates the flight controls of an aircraft in which that pilot is rated, that pilot may log the time as PIC. This does NOT change who is assigned as pilot in command. Operations conducted under 14 CFR 135 can have only ONE assigned PIC, regardless of who is manipulating the flight controls. The assigned PIC must be assigned in writing and remains the pilot in command throughout the flight. Therefore, when the SIC manipulates the flight controls, that pilot may log PIC flight time. The only time the second in command can log SIC flight time is while that person is serving as second in command on an aircraft requiring more than one pilot by its type certificate, or when required by the regulations under which the flight is conducted. Obviously, AirNet’s light piston twins do not require more than one pilot by the type certificates, however, there are conditions under 14 CFR 135 operations which do require two pilots regardless of the aircraft type. Examples include takeoffs below 1,800 RVR, carrying passengers in IFR conditions without an autopilot, and whenever the flight crew is being assigned to more than eight hours of flight time. In most cases, even these requirements do not apply to operations at AirNet, therefore, the SIC logs pilot in command time while being the sole manipulator of the flight controls and logs total time only, when not manipulating the flight controls.

This program and method of logging flight time is supported not only by Federal Aviation Regulations, but also by legal interpretations. Keep in mind, however, that as pilots move through their careers and apply for other jobs, certain organizations may require specific conditions of pilot in command time. One major airline, for example, has very specific instructions on its application that state pilot in command time is ONLY the time for which you were responsible for or in charge of the aircraft, not merely sole manipulator of the flight controls.In summary, there is a difference between who is assigned as pilot in command and who may be manipulating the flight controls and logging PIC time. At times, both pilots may be logging PIC time because one is the assigned pilot in command (acting PIC as provided in 14 CFR 61.51(e)1(iii)) and the other may be manipulating the flight controls but assigned as second in command.

In most cases at AirNet, an assigned SIC is either logging the time as pilot in command when he or she is the sole manipulator of the flight controls, logging the flight time as total time only when not manipulating the flight controls, or as SIC if required to be there either by the aircraft type certificate or by the regulations under which the operations are conducted.

Pilots who still have questions about how the AirNet second in command program works may contact us at (877) 247-6386.

— Clair Morris,
Director of Training, AirNet Express

 

[ProLine4]

Its not that hard to understand

Ok after looking this info over....I think the logging versus acting thing really gets me. (Refer to info below).... DO you think this would ever become an issue with FAA, future employers, your own morals....? Read below and reply....
_______________________________________________

In most cases at AirNet, an assigned SIC is either logging the time as pilot in command when he or she is the sole manipulator of the flight controls, logging the flight time as total time only when not manipulating the flight controls, or as SIC if required to be there either by the aircraft type certificate or by the regulations under which the operations are conducted.

Pilots who still have questions about how the AirNet second in command program works may contact us at (877) 247-6386.

— Clair Morris,
Director of Training, AirNet Express

Logging versus acting is not that hard to understand. Reread the above text from the AirNet website.

Here's a simplified explanation...

If your'e right seat, you log PIC when your'e sole manipulator and the left side is drinking his coffee. The left seat is ACTING the whole time, but you can LOG because YOUR hands are on the controls.

When the left seat is flying and you're drinking your coffee, you log total time because it's an approved program to do so. This time, he is ACTING and LOGGING the PIC. You can log the TOTAL TIME. Again, this act of logging the Total Time is permitted because of AirNets' approved SIC program.

In addition, SIC time can be logged if required by the aircrafts type certificate or by the regulations under which the airplane operates, ie, Part 135, 121, and in AirNet or Central Air Southwest's case, an approved program by which people may operate as SIC on an aircraft that does not require a second pilot (Baron and Aero Commanders, respectively).

Please note the difference in the FAA's eyes between acting and logging. Do not cross these two up. 14 CFR Part 61 is about the logging of time.

You can log as PIC the time you spend as sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft for which you are rated. Rated means category and class, and a type rating if required. Nothing more. If you are a private pilot with an airplane category rating and a single engine land class rating, you may log the time you spend as sole manipulator of the controls in that category and class. If that airplane requires a high performance endorsement, and you don't have it, you can still log the time because you are RATED in the airplane.

Again, rated means ONLY category and class....what it says on your ticket: Airplane Single Engine Land. It says nothing about high performance, complex, etc.

An endorsement is NOT a rating.

You may not ACT as pilot in command of the airplane requiring the endorsement, if you don't have the endorsement. However, you may LOG the time as PIC.

This has started many a huge argument with CFI's everywhere.
It really shouldn't though, because we're allowed to both log AND act as PIC on a dual flight thanks to 61.49(e)(3). What a great reg that is.

The often rehashed argument that I have heard is: "You mean my student can log PIC before I give them the complex/high performance/high altitude signoff?"

YES, when they're DUAL with you the instructor. They're applicably rated in category and class. They can LOG.
You the CFI, though, are ACTING as PIC, because you hold everything necessary to ACT as PIC: Applicably rated in category and class, holder of all necessary endorsements, and current in the airplane. Once you the CFI sign them off, they can then ACT as PIC, and you do not need to fly with them anymore in their Arrow/Saratoga/Cheyenne/PC12/BE200/etc. (insurance requirements obviously excluded.)


Hope this helps. You can search the forums for more info on this if it's still not clear.

 

[RFtech]

According to my research the Airnet SIC program is ligit. Of course, I am no expert.

 

[U-I pilot]

thx...Airnet sounds pretty legit....

 

[T-REX]

I remember reading ..that at the peak of hiring the competitative time for SIC was 900 hours with a high amount of dual given. Hoever, i dont anticipate AirNet hving a shortae of ilots for sometime. Anyhow, best of luck and good flying..and WOW did U of I Basktball choke this year!!!

 

[U-I pilot]

U-I bball

tell me about it....we were all pretty disappointed...

 

[ProLine4]

CAS is PFT

Beware Central Air Southwest is PFT.

Thanks, just confirmed it today from one of my friends that looked into their operation. Central Air Southwest is PFT. Don't be a PFT sell out.

 

[BoDEAN]

We got off topic here on the thread


Back to the topic relating to jobs in the areas........

 

[rfeathe1]

What kind of aircraft does Gulfstream fly?

 

[RFtech]

1900Ds

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

More info:

While U may legally log the above time as PIC, some airlines will not accept it.

Some of them point-blank ask you (in their app, or interview), if U were the one legally responsible for the aircraft-did you sign for the aircraft? If no, it cannot be counted as PIC time. I have some T-37/38 solo time (mutienging trainer jets). Some airlines will not accept this as PIC time, even though I was the only one in the plane, as I was under the supervision of an instructor.

Other airlines don't care.

Be prepared to differentiate PIC-flying from PIC-actual Capt who is responsible for the flight, and you will be OK.

Cliff
GRB