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Cheyenne 400 VS King Air 200

msuspartans24

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Got a friend who flies the Cheyenne 400 and swears by his life that it is an all around better airplane than the king air. Just curious if anyone with some time in both would agree.
 

bigD

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msuspartans24 said:
Got a friend who flies the Cheyenne 400 and swears by his life that it is an all around better airplane than the king air. Just curious if anyone with some time in both would agree.

The 400 is a monster of an airplane. It's certainly a MUCH better performer than a 200. But I think the 200 is slightly bigger, and being a Beech, most likely better built.
 

Lead Sled

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First of all, I've got to say that I've never flown a Cheyenne 400, but I've got several hundred hours setting in the left front seat of both the KA200 and the K-Mart King Air (Cheyenne III). Twenty years ago the 400 was the turboprop to beat. That was then, this is now. I'd sure hate to have to maintain one of those beasts now. It was hard enough getting parts for the III twenty years ago. It's basically the Law of the Jungle, the survival of the fittest. By that measure the King Air is the best turboprop out there.

'Sled
 

BE200Driver

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How much BE200 Time does your friend have?
 

cptsesso

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I don't know if the 400 is the same as the III, but I heard in the III you have to carry sandbags to help fix the CG in many situations.

I have about 1200 hrs left seat in the 200 and never once had the CG come even close to being out. If you can fit it through the door, the 200 will haul it.
 

rubicon789

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I don't know much about the 400 except that it is fast as $h!t and climbs like a mofo.... However not to sure about the MX issues and costs. HUGH WHALE PADDLE PROPS though so it looks cool on the ramp.

The 200 is still probably a better all around a/c as far as performance, mx, parts, and cost.

my .02
 

Fly High

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The 400LS is a faster airplane than the 200 but you can not compare a Piper product to a Beech product. I have flown both a Cheyenne and 200 and there is no comparison. The 200 is bullet proof and the 400LS is a, well it is still a piper.
 

FlyFlyFly

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Performance-wise, the Cheyenne will slay all KingAirs, even the 350. That being said, I would imagine that finding support for the airplane would be a real job. Parts, qualified techs and facilities willing to work on the plane would be a real issue. Plus, the less known the AC is to a tech, the shop hours tick by while troubleshooting is done on even minor problems.

On the other hand, getting a KingAir fixed is relatively easy. The time lost to the boss airlining when the plane was down would kill the Cheyenne as a better performer pretty quick.
 

mzaharis

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An interesting review of the Piper 400LS - The website was shut down, so here's the cached version from google.com:

Page 1
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...g1.htm+"cheyenne+400LS"+"imperial+bank"&hl=en

Page 2
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...g2.htm+"cheyenne+400LS"+"imperial+bank"&hl=en



Excerpts:
The result is astonishing. The 400LS will out climb most small to medium business jets. In terms of hard numbers, it has a maximum true airspeed of 360 knots and will cruise at over 40,000 feet at 340 knots for nearly seven hours. It will accomplish this seating nine people in stretch-out comfort and at less than half the fuel burn of a Citation II. . . .

During the pre-flight walk about it is clear this is a Piper and not a Beechcraft product. PHO's age is beginning to show in the general fit of the panels and particularly on the fibreglass mouldings, which were beginning to craze. The heavily over-engineered solidity of Beech products seems to be lacking, most obviously when looking at the access panels which appear to be loose fitting. . . .


The huge power of this Piper has made this not just a hot rod special of limited utility but an aircraft of immense practical use. It is capable of taking as many people as a Citation I a far greater distance at a similar speed. The owner says that on a Lanseria to Luanda leg, the aircraft can carry more payload than a King Air 200. With 2,000lbs of fuel for four hours there is still capacity for another 2,200 lbs of passengers. Typical fuel burn at a high cruise level is 400lbs (60 US gallons) an hour - half that of a comparable Citation. With total useable fuel of 570 gallons, the aircraft can comfortably make Johannesburg to Mauritius non-stop. . . .
 

BE200Driver

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New Piper does not support the Cheyenne line. Real pain in the wallet.
 
T

The Natural

mzaharis said:
An interesting review of the Piper 400LS - The website was shut down, so here's the cached version from google.com:

Page 1
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:foaIj38skjwJ:www.fliteguide.co.za/Imperial_Aviation/Full_aircraft_reports/FR_piper_cheyenne_pg1.htm+%22cheyenne+400LS%22+%22imperial+bank%22&hl=en

Page 2
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:3hjFlvB80D4J:www.fliteguide.co.za/Imperial_Aviation/Full_aircraft_reports/FR_piper_cheyenne_pg2.htm+%22cheyenne+400LS%22+%22imperial+bank%22&hl=en



Excerpts:
The result is astonishing. The 400LS will out climb most small to medium business jets. In terms of hard numbers, it has a maximum true airspeed of 360 knots and will cruise at over 40,000 feet at 340 knots for nearly seven hours. It will accomplish this seating nine people in stretch-out comfort and at less than half the fuel burn of a Citation II. . . .

During the pre-flight walk about it is clear this is a Piper and not a Beechcraft product. PHO's age is beginning to show in the general fit of the panels and particularly on the fibreglass mouldings, which were beginning to craze. The heavily over-engineered solidity of Beech products seems to be lacking, most obviously when looking at the access panels which appear to be loose fitting. . . .


The huge power of this Piper has made this not just a hot rod special of limited utility but an aircraft of immense practical use. It is capable of taking as many people as a Citation I a far greater distance at a similar speed. The owner says that on a Lanseria to Luanda leg, the aircraft can carry more payload than a King Air 200. With 2,000lbs of fuel for four hours there is still capacity for another 2,200 lbs of passengers. Typical fuel burn at a high cruise level is 400lbs (60 US gallons) an hour - half that of a comparable Citation. With total useable fuel of 570 gallons, the aircraft can comfortably make Johannesburg to Mauritius non-stop. . . .


Thats faster than the Piaggio?
 

BE200Driver

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Piaggio is a 390 KTAS Beast. With twice the cabin.
 

4fanman

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mzaharis said:
It will accomplish this seating nine people in stretch-out comfort and at less than half the fuel burn of a Citation II. . . .

I don't know about nine people in stretched out comfort. The fuselage is just a Navajo, isn't it?


The 331's it's sporting are thermo'd at 1500 shp flat rated to 1000 shp. Piper did a PR stunt with it back in the early '80's by having Chuck Yeager break several time-to-climb records in one that was void of an interior. It was documented in one of the old Wide World of Flying videos.

That thing just looks fast on the ramp.




I forgot...




Go Spartans!!!:D
 

Lead Sled

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The 400 has the same cabin as the III and I've flown the III multiple times coast to coast. I don't think that I'd describe the process as stretching out in comfort. :eek:

Anyway you cut it, anything with a cabin that size starts to get cozy after a couple of hours.

As far as the Piaggio goes, it's an interesting airplane, but the jury is still out. It has very impressive numbers and an impressive cabin, but it had those the last time they tried to penitrate the American market. It remains to be seen if the can manage to sell some. If they do, then it will probably be the turboprop to beat. However, they've got to sell more than a handful in order to be a viable airplane. I'd hate to have to try and maintain one 15 years from now if Piaggio pulls back out of the north american market like they did a few years back.

'Sled
 

cheyflyer

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mzaharis said:
An interesting review of the Piper 400LS - The website was shut down, so here's the cached version from google.com:

Page 1
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:foaIj38skjwJ:www.fliteguide.co.za/Imperial_Aviation/Full_aircraft_reports/FR_piper_cheyenne_pg1.htm+%22cheyenne+400LS%22+%22imperial+bank%22&hl=en

Page 2
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:3hjFlvB80D4J:www.fliteguide.co.za/Imperial_Aviation/Full_aircraft_reports/FR_piper_cheyenne_pg2.htm+%22cheyenne+400LS%22+%22imperial+bank%22&hl=en



Excerpts:
The result is astonishing. The 400LS will out climb most small to medium business jets. In terms of hard numbers, it has a maximum true airspeed of 360 knots and will cruise at over 40,000 feet at 340 knots for nearly seven hours. It will accomplish this seating nine people in stretch-out comfort and at less than half the fuel burn of a Citation II. . . .

During the pre-flight walk about it is clear this is a Piper and not a Beechcraft product. PHO's age is beginning to show in the general fit of the panels and particularly on the fibreglass mouldings, which were beginning to craze. The heavily over-engineered solidity of Beech products seems to be lacking, most obviously when looking at the access panels which appear to be loose fitting. . . .


The huge power of this Piper has made this not just a hot rod special of limited utility but an aircraft of immense practical use. It is capable of taking as many people as a Citation I a far greater distance at a similar speed. The owner says that on a Lanseria to Luanda leg, the aircraft can carry more payload than a King Air 200. With 2,000lbs of fuel for four hours there is still capacity for another 2,200 lbs of passengers. Typical fuel burn at a high cruise level is 400lbs (60 US gallons) an hour - half that of a comparable Citation. With total useable fuel of 570 gallons, the aircraft can comfortably make Johannesburg to Mauritius non-stop. . . .




I have been operating the III for a couple months now and have been researching the 400LS for one of the bosses who wants one bad. From what I have found 2000 pounds fuel is not 4 hours. More like 2 and some change. I think it would be an awesome airplane to fly and kinda wish we would get one but, the things I have learned is 1. RVSM is a must and 2. heaven forbid should you need prop MX. Blades run about 20K each if you ding one. RVSM is runnng about 125K. I think the shear size, power, and weight of the Garrets help with the CG problems the III has, which yes, IS a problem in the III. I have heard from several KA200 guys that getting it out of CG is almost impossible. And the 7 hours mentoned in the above article, well maybe so, but with no people. From what I saw, plan on about 1000 NM with full passengers, or about 3 hours or so.

I have found this by asking around. Check with Cheyenne Air Service Center in PA or Columbia Air Service in CT, they seem to be the resident experts on Cheyennes.
 

knelson

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Pilot's airplane

I flew a 400LS for about a year and a half (4-500 hrs) and absolutely loved the thing. That's cause I wasn't paying the MX bills. It was not like it was real MX intensive, just that there was no great support network and we were practically charting new territory every time line maintenance was required. Also, that was prior to DRVSM and I had no experience taking one through that process. The long-short of it is this-talk to a lot of people who have operated them, and then when it is all said and done, just let them keep the plane and you live vicariously through them. I think the 400LS had a pretty decent shot at being a pretty great plane. The only thing that stood in the way of that is the brand name. Yet another product Piper doesn't support. Go for a ride, remember it, buy a King Air.


knelson
 

mzaharis

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I had found that article because I had gotten my PPL at the Piper dealer in DSM (Des Moines Flying Service), and that airplane was the ultimate propeller lust object for me at the time. Still is, but it sounds like it's also a lot of trouble if you actually have to own and maintain one.
 

jeb

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Cheyenne vs 200

I have a friend who flew the 400 for about a year, great preformer. Downside they are no longer in production, he waited six weeks for a replacement fuel cell. It seemed to be pretty maintenance intensive. If I remember right most of the 400's were sent overseas. If you are getting an airplane for business you better get something thats dependable.
 

Thedude

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Why would you want a turbo prop that is RVSM qualified. If you are operating at 28,000 and above, you are either in the wrong aircraft for your mission or you don't understand the performance curve of a turboprop.
 
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