Chemtrail Update - Las Vegas

[Flying Illini]

C'mon Typhoon, post those emails! I am always in the mood for a good laugh!! Might as well tell Denver that "Chemgoo Sprayer....ON" is part of the cruise checklist. How about we try to make him MORE paranoid. That's much easier than trying to reason with a lunatic!

Later, gotta go, we're recieving our super-secret midnight delivery of ULTRAchemgoo. We're headed out to AZ tomorrow and boy would we ever be up the crick without a paddle if this load didn't come in tonight!



"Chemgoo Sprayer...ON"

 

[Skyboss]

What a fkn' moron....

Funny his story is on Vegas and the heading reads Houston..

 

[Jafar]

"We believe in Michael" and "love always Michael Jackson."

So now there is a clear link between "chemtrails" and blowing little kids.

Awesome.

 

[A Squared]

Nope, Denver130 is the real item. I'd gladly bet my next paycheck that he is not trolling. As screwed up as he is, he is actually sincere. There really are a bunch of folks out there who's brains are really that defective. It's tempting to get drawn into explaining these freaks what is really going on, but it is pointless.

 

[siucavflight]

I hate Vlad.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I hate Vlad.

Dude, you got even more issues than I do!

 

[Typhoon1244]

Okay, for your entertainment...let's go inside the mind of a paranoid schizophrenic.

(NOTE: schizophrenia is not the same as "Multiple Personality Disorder," despite what many people think. Schozoids simply do not experience reality the way "normal" people do. I think Denver certainly qualifies...)

I wrote: "Chemtrails" are actually trails of water vapor condensed from the air by the intense heat of aircraft engines...hence the proper name contrails, short for "condensation trails."

The reason for unusual contrail patterns in the sky is the use of VOR navigation by airliners and military aircraft. Several aircraft an hour may pass over (for example) the Falcon VOR in Denver enroute to other destinations, and this often creates the appearance of wheel-spoke patterns over the VOR. "Grids" are formed when minor navigation deviations take place. A VOR airway is several miles wide, and aircraft don't always follow in each others' wake.

The idea that anyone could be loading airliners or other aircraft with dangerous chemicals that would make visible trails in the sky is absolute nonsense. Think: if this were part of some nefarious plot, why would "they" go out of their way to make these trails so unbelieveably visible?

I hope this helps!

*** ********, Captain
Atlantic Southeast Airlines

Reply from Joe Denver
Dear ***,

Thank you for your comments. Those are interesting thoughts you put here. I never thought of them before. But I do have a few questions for you.

1. If the normal appearance of jet contrail is a pencil thin line in the sky on a rare occasion, why should we consider the 6 photos at www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails as "normal"?
2. If "normal" jet contrails are simply ice crystals, why should we consider jet trails that last up to 4 hours normal? In Houston, Mark Steadman did a study on jet contrails and the average jet contrail duration was 30 seconds.
3. Why are these trails being laid down at or below cloud level and lasting for hours? (jet contrails normally occur at 30,000ft according to NASA) Temperatures at 10,000 to 20,000ft in Houston would not qualify for the -50 to -70 required for "normal" jet contrails.
4. If jet contrails are considered rare by NASA, why are we seeing so many now? and below cloud level? (especially in Houston, one of the hotest places on earth.)
5. Why is the Chem X picture at www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails not pencil thin like a "normal" jet trail should be?
6. What is coming out of the tail of the “Chem Tail” photo at www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails? That photo I took at the top of Mansfield Dam in Austin with a recorded humidity of 15% that day. Austin is arid, hot, dry and miserable in the summer. If it takes 70% humidity and -50 degrees temp, how can that jet make that trail? And why is the exhaust coming out of the tail of the plane, not engines?
7. Would the military ever carry on a covert aerial spray operations without telling us? I can answer this one for you. The answer is YES. Two years ago, the Houston Chronicle published an article by the associated press entitled "U.S. admits using nerve gasses in tests on navy ships in the '60s". Thats just the tip of the iceberg

a)Senator Dennis Kucinich listed the chemtrail program in HR2977. Here is what he told his hometown newspaper:

"Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis. The U.S. Space Command’s 2020 vision calls for “dominance” of space, land, sea
and air. "

Here is what Representative Marty Sabo said of covert spraying in Minneapolis:

U.S. Representative Marty Sabo, a Democrat from Minnesota, denounced “the secret Army program to spray Minneapolis and other cities with chemicals in the 1950s and ’60s,” the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported in September 1994. “The idea that the government would use its own citizens as guinea pigs is appalling, and I condemn it in the strongest possible terms,” Sabo told a House subcommittee investigating the secret spraying, which used fluorescent tracers to mark wind patterns.

Here is what people said in Espanola, Ontario said:

In November, 1999, a petition signed by 550 residents of Espanola, Ontario was presented to the Canadian government after alleged overflights by U.S. Air Force tankers sprayed sky-obscuring chemicals that townspeople claimed were making children and adults sick over a 50 square-mile area. Lab tests of rainwater falling through the chemical clouds over Espanola subsequently measured aluminum levels seven-times higher than permissible federal health safety limits.

After NDP Defense critic Gordon Earle presented a petition signed by 550 Espanola residents to Parliament in November, 1999 demanding an end to aerial spraying by commercial or military aircraft, foreign or domestic which appeared to be making many people sick, DND eventually replied, It s not us. The aluminum found in chemtrails over Ontario matches the 10 micron aluminum oxide called for in a 1994 patent issued to Hughes Aircraft Company.

Here is what an ex Navy officer in Maine saw:

On Monday, March 12, reporter Brendt and her partner Lou Aubuchont counted 30 aircraft laying down a lingering gridwork of plumes between 12:05 and 12:55 pm. Aubuchont, who witnessed many military maneuvers during his stint as a courier in U.S. Navy Intelligence, said he had never seen anything like it.

What about the spraying of Winnipeg in 1953?:

In 1953, the US Government asked the Canadian Government if it could test a chemical over the city of Winnipeg. It was a big city with 500,000 people, miles from anywhere. The American military sprayed this carcinogenic chemical in a 1,000%-attenuated form, which they said would be so watered down that nobody would get very sick; however, if people came to clinics with a sniffle, a sore throat or ringing in their ears, the researchers would be able to determine what percentage would have developed cancer if the chemical had been used at full strength.

We located evidence that the Americans had indeed tested this carcinogenic chemical--zinc cadmium sulphide--over Winnipeg in 1953. We wrote to the Government of Canada, explaining that we had solid evidence of the spraying and asking that we be informed as to how high up in the government the request for permission to spray had gone. We did not receive a reply.

Shortly after, the Pentagon held a press conference on May 14, 1997, where they admitted what they had done. Robert Russo, writing for the Toronto Star from Washington, DC, reported the Pentagon's admission at in 1953 it had obtained permission from the Canadian Government to fly over the city of Winnipeg and spray out this chemical--which sifted down on kids going to school, housewives hanging out their laundry and people going to work.

US Army planes and trucks released the chemical 36 times between July and August 1953. The Pentagon got its statistics, which indicated that if the chemical released had been full strength, approximately a third of the population of Winnipeg would have developed cancers over the next five years.

Project SHAD tests:

In January 1963, Richard Holmes was standing on the deck of the U.S.S. Navarro when it passed through a fog belt in the Pacific Ocean west of Oahu, Hawaii. Suddenly, his chest tightened, and he began coughing and doubled over, unable to breathe. “It’s like I was paralyzed,” the Homestead resident recalls.

Attorneys from Shaw Pittman LLP, the Washington, D.C.-based firm representing the SHAD vets, say the secrecy of these tests was to protect the military’s wallet and reputation more than national security.


Let me know what you think when you have a spare moment.

Joe Denver

 

[Typhoon1244]

Then I wrote: Joe, I've been reviewing the websites and pictures you've referred me to, and I think I understand where the misunderstanding lies: none of the "chemtrails" depicted can be explained if you ignore the fact that until you reach the edge of space, the temperature of the atmosphere decreases 3.5 degrees Farenheit with every thousand feet of altitude. That's
why vapor/ice crystal trails (contrails) can exist when you're experiencing a nice hot Summer day. Does this help?

Reply from Joe Denver
When you fly, do you have a gage that tells you how cold it is outside?

I told him "yes," but I didn't save all my replies.

Stay tuned...more later!

 

[sky37d]

Did you tell him that Agent Orange is not really a chemical, but a bunch of zerilians that chew up the leaves?

I fitted out the skymaster with a tank that would feed ChemGoo to the rear muffler, like the O-2's had for smoke, and all it did was gum up the rear prop. Had to feather the sucker, took 3 days to clean all the crud off.

 

[Typhoon1244]

So I think I'm making progress...then I get this:

Dear ***,

You have a lot of good points and I’ve thought about them much before typing this email. I think the problem in the chemtrail controversy revolves about what people consider as “normal”. I believe that most citizens have come to consider a pencil thin, high altitude contrail as “normal”. “Normal”
as being what most people see on a day to day basis. Moreover, jet contrail physics seems to fit the pencil thin explanation as well the majority of the time. I have taken time to view publications that discuss and explain jet contrails and whenever they discuss them, they use the terms/phrases “high altitude”, “-50 degrees”, “saturation of humidity” and altitudes of” 30,000/40,000 ft”. Most of the documents I’ve seen stay in that pattern. I can’t think of one publication that describes jet contrails as “lasting for hours”, “occurs in dry arid conditions”, “easily seen as jets land at the airport”, or “occurs in real hot climates as well as cold climates”. Finally, from my own observations with 40 plus years of experience, I can say that pencil thin, high altitude contrails fit the “normal” pattern as well. Many times I’d see them at the beach, watch the lonely jet cross the sky and within 10 minutes be gone as well as the trail. Just about anybody you interview without a doubt would agree that pencil thin contrails are “normal”.

However, I do agree that there are rare (non day to day) exceptions. I’ve even read literature on the exceptions. But I wouldn’t consider the exceptions as a normal day to day phenomenon (as observed on the ground) nor would I put them on an equal footing with what people consider the “norm”.
I’d consider it an exception and treat it like an exception. If they were that common, you would see them on TV and the printed page all the time.

Now here's my favorite part...

Have you ever watched “Wings” on cable TV? You hardly ever see jet contrails on that show. What about newspaper advertisements? In USA today there’s a big full page add with a giant 747 jet in it. No jet contrail behind that baby! What about airplane magazines at the bookstore? Sorry, I can’t find photos there either. What about the movies? Of all the jet scenes I’ve
encountered I may have seen one military movie with jet contrails but they came from missiles. Hard to believe isn’t it? They do exist but they appear rare.

I also hold to the belief that jet contrails are rare as viewed from
the ground. Literature and simple observation from the ground on clear days can easily demonstrate the rarity of jet contrails. You can record days without seeing jet contrails whether its Houston or Las Vegas, and then for a day or week at a time see hundreds of low altitude jet contrails lingering for hours. If I can’t even get ice cubes on my back door to last 15 minutes in one of the hottest climates in the USA, its hard to believe that low
altitude ice crystals can last for hours. (even doing the math of subtracting 2.5 degrees for every thousand feet wouldn’t explain the chemtrails were seeing unless your living in a real cold climate to begin with.)

I originally told Joe the lapse rate was 2.5 F per thousand by mistake. (Hey, I'm rusty on Farenheit!) But it goes to show you how carefully Joe checks facts before he takes them to heart!

Finally, it appears that the anger of the citizenry has boiled to a
point where a grass roots movement of citizens is calling this type of trail into question at state and national levels because it seems un-normal to them. (for example, you can now find a chemtrails website from just about every single city or town in America, complete with photos and citizen research, as well as letters to senators and representatives.). Citizens are reading books, observing the sky, recording observations electronically, and taking a careful look at what officials are telling them. And they are concluding that chemtrails is not a hoax as Lt. Col USAF Michael Gibson has claimed.

Why would people be wasting their time on a so-called “hoax”? Because these citizens are like my supervisor, at ConocoPhillips who is an intelligent, well educated lady who woke up one day to see a low attitude grid shaped group of trails over her house that didn’t go away for hours nor did it fit the explanation of the “norm”. She never forgot it. It spoofed her. It spoofed her daughter and it spoofed her neighbors, just as it is spoofing
everyone else in the country.

I don't know, but it bothers me that ConocoPhillips is apparently riddled with ignorance and stupidity from the top down!

Is this normal? Has the norm changed? Is there a logical explanation why we don’t have deep blue skies any longer? Why the sudden appearance of grid trails, X trails, wheel trails and the like?

And finally, could it be that there really is a covert military program altering the upper atmosphere for military purposes? Would you be able to tell the difference?

For whatever its worth, I’ll leave you with the words of four government officials...

...and he rehashed the newspaper articles from his first eMail.

If they did that then, what are they doing now?

 

[Typhoon1244]

I should note, by the way, that in the original Chemtrail thread, Denver vanished as soon as I suggested he may not be who/what he claims to be. I find that significant.

 

[Kingairrick]

should note, by the way, that in the original Chemtrail thread, Denver vanished as soon as I suggested he may not be who/what he claims to be. I find that significant.

Ty, you are missing the obvious! "Denver130" was on TV most of yesterday getting booked into the Santa Barbera Jail! YES Denver 130 IS Micheal Jackson! It's the only explanation that makes sense.

 

[DCitrus9]

Here in the world of the Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson airport, a certain group insists Michael's arrest is racially motivated. What kind of rock must you be living under to not see this freak as the pedophile he is?
Flying Illini, let me know how that Ultra Chemgoo works out for you. I heard we're getting a shipment next month and would appreciate any advice on differences in the spray patterns, etc.

 

[sky37d]

Denver is Michael??!!!
It all makes sense now.

 

[Wankel7]

New vital actions:

1. Fuel condition - cut off
2. Prop - feathered
3. LP - shut
4. Chemgoo - on

 

[AA717driver]

Typhoon--Next time, ask Joe how much food he has stored in his basement. This group sounds like the guys I knew who hung out in the gun store in the late 70's talking about assault rifles and what they would do when "the s**t hits the fan"(meaning the social upheaval that would allow these individuals to rise to their rightful place in the world because of their superior "survival skills").

Ask Joe if he prefers the AR-15 or the AR-180... TC

 

[Skyboss]

Me thinks Joe was around 18 in the 60's. Everything is a conspiracy to that age group:

Kennedy
Nixon
Johnson
Vietnam
UFO's

Now....

Chemtrails

I guess when TV became popular, they thought everything was real that was on.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

I am Denver, please refrain from making further comments in regards to contrails, the government has been notified about this website

Michael is innocent and his music will save the world, just like it helped to save teh whale

That is all

 

[Flying Illini]

DCitrus9,
Just wanted to let you and everyone else know that the new Ultrachemgoo is a superb product. We used it today on our trip to AMA-TUS and back. We recieved a vector for traffic which allowed me a look back at the wonderful chemgoo trail we were leaving. Probably the most compelling reason to switch from chemgoo to Ultrachemgoo is the fact that Ultrachemgoo does not spread out, it remains in a "normal" pencil thin trail thus reducing suspicion from wierdos like Denver. I would recommend this product to everyone and if you order more than 5000 gallons you recieve a free Ultrachemgoo hat and T-shirt!

btw~ you don't even have to modify your chemgoo sprayer when making the switch to Ultra!


Happy spraying!

 

[Denver130]

Vegas Examined

Lets re-examine the Vegas mans observations:

1. “They appear EVERY weekend without fail.”

(comment: He is making observations, notations and found a pattern.)

2. “But he (his friend) couldn't tell me how the atmospheric conditions were always so favorable to trails on the weekend, especially when the weather here is so consistent from one day to the next during the summer.”

(comment: normal explanations do not fit what he is observing)

3. “We stood there and counted 11 jets in the air; nine of which were leaving trails, and some that were not leaving trails were flying at a higher altitude than the ones that were.”

(comment: Here’s a mixed bag. Low altitude jets leaving trails. High altitude jets leaving no trails)

4. “The very next day, I took him back outside for another look. That time we counted 9 planes in the air, none of which were leaving trails. “

(comment: no jets are leaving trails – which is NORMAL for Vegas)

5. “The temperature was the same, and the air traffic only slightly less.”

(comment: He took temperature readings and is acquainted with his regions climate)

6. “We almost never have chemtrails on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, but they are here Friday through Sunday like clockwork.”

(comments: He observes trails certain days of the week on a consistent basis that he can describe as a pattern.)

7. “Chemtrails are a common sight here in Las Vegas.”

(comment: He did some research and found a bonified issue. (which can be traced to a US representative and a governmental document – HR2977)

8. Denver finds pictures in question on the web of Vegas chemtrails. Two have people in the photo with massive parallel contrails in them. The others have trails in addition to what looks like cirrus clouds that are not typical of that region.

9. Pilots Response:

1. It happens all the time. We can’t help it if it defies science. Trust us!
2. What do citizens know about anything anyway? Just because they can think, reason, research, use the scientific method, check NASA and NOAA and provide solid science doesn’t mean a thing. Pilots know best.
3. The government would NEVER do such a stupid thing! How could you ever question them? (Except for Project SHAD, Project 112, Project Autum Gold, Project Fearless Johnny, the 2 mile bacterial cloud over San Francisco, ect...and the fact that the government admits chemtrails in HR2977.)

PS. I have to fly to St Louis tomorrow and will be gone for the week. I'll bring my camcorder with me and do some more sky observations for you. Question what you see and you'll see something you never saw before.