Check this out

[Timebuilder]

A charter operator posts a job, and a friend of mine applies, and is awarded the job after driving across the state for an interview. He arranges for a new apartment, and visits some churches to find one that is right. He drives back accross the state. He tells his part time employer that he has finally found another job in aviation after over a year of unemployment. He starts packing, looking forward to some ground school to begin next Monday. His wife is getting ready to move with my friend and their child to this new opportunity.

Wait, it gets better.

This charter guy had two employees leave for new jobs. For whatever reason, they don't want to, or can't, stay in their new jobs, and call their old boss, who gives them their jobs back, AFTER hiring my friend. Now, my friend is staying here, and wondering what hit him, with no job at all.

Right or wrong? What do you think?

 

[T-Gates]

Sucks, but that is the way things go sometimes.

If you would have told my friend who quit flying Lears to go to Eagle in August '01 that he would be furloughed 1.5 months later, he would have laughed in your face.

That is what I have learned about flying, expect the unexpected....

--03M

 

[jarhead]

The short answer is "WRONG". The former employees resigned, and the new employee accepted the job offer in good faith. The two who left, did so of their own free will. Seems like the owner of the charter service has a character flaw. He made an implied promise of employment, and then reneged with out a valid reason, in my view.

 

[cherokee]

Ditto what jarhead said. That is low and in my opinion is much different than being furloughed. I would remember that one..aviation is a small community and he may be in the position to get a pound of flesh from the guy in the future if he wants.

 

[bobbysamd]

Bad faith

Sure, it's wrong, and, besides that, it bites.

The fellow who took the job accepted it in good faith and relied upon the representations of the employer that he would have a job. The pilot and the employer made an agreement of employment (buzz word for "contract"). I'm not a lawyer, of course, but it sounds to me that the employer acted in bad faith and breached his agreement with the pilot. Proving these things might be tough, especially if only oral representations were made. Just the same, the pilot should at least discuss it with a lawyer. He might also place calls to the state Attorney-General and the Better Business Bureau.

Good luck to your friend, Mr. Time. It may be aviation, but that does not make it any less wrong. And people wonder why so many pilots are bitter??

 

[bart]

The answer is TYPICAL. Dirtbag operators handle people like this all the time. Mainly because they find that pilots are a dime a dozen. Sadly, when the time comes to hire again, they will have 100 s wanting the job.

 

[Salty Dog]

Duh! It's as wrong as a buck tooth supermodel and you know it.

That employer is a complete slimeball. And worse, he's a liar.

Give me the parasite's phone number and I'll call him and tell him myself.

You want people to keep their word? Then you have to shame them when they don't.

I mean it. I'll call him. F---er.

 

[PropTrash]

As has been stated above, aviation is a very small community. You really ought to post that fella's name and company here. Wouldn't it be fabulous if he got a bunch of calls telling him what an absolute a-hole he is? Especially if he has a 1-800 number.

 

[cdog]

It's wrong and it stinks but there probably isn't anything you can do about it except to burn the mf's house down.

 

[pilotyip]

Not defending

The guy probably made his decision to bring the old guys back because it was cheaper than training the new guy. That does not make the decision correct, but it certainly not un- presidented in this industry. Worked for an airline once that terminated people at Christmas when business was slow and then rehired as a first year new hire employee on January first. Didn't have to pay second year wages, no benefits, and no training costs, the ideal employee, they had a lot of retention problems when hiring picked up. They finally became organized by a union and went out of business.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Time,


Situation sounds horrible. But, if there was no written offer I wouldn't have put too much stock in it. Maybe he can still make the move and avail himself of any back-up flying the employer might have use for. Good luck to your friend and his family.


Mr. I.

 

[Eagleflip]

Much as I think this operator is a slime ball, please don't post his name or number here. It is not the appropriate place for that kind of action.

Thanks. By the way, why don't you post the new location of this uprooted family so that someone on the board may be able to come up with a potental job offering? I know there aren't many jobs out there, but hey--stranger things have happened.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

A job offer aint a job offer unless its in writing...
if they cant do that (for what its worth) then that tells you volumes about the "opportunity" you are moving for...

I agree, post the SOB's company and let others beware.

 

[eddie]

How many job offers have you guys been given in writing? The only one's I've ever gotten were from airlines, and they all said the employment was contingent on 1000 little things.

Each charter job I've had was offered without a written agreement.

 

[Ralph]

Well I've never having taken a full time job as a pilot and maybe things are different but... for every IT job I've taken I've had something in writing prior to quitting my existing job. Sometimes I tell them you can not call my current employer until I have something in writing that the job offer is mine starting on this day at this pay and is contigent on blah blah blah. That way I don't ruin my relationship with my boss over a job I never got.

So your buddy was not careful. Take advantage of me once and shame on you, twice and shame on me. Hopefully he learned his lesson.

 

[Timebuilder]

I haven't called my friend today, but I will soon. I'm sure he has learned something from this, and I think that I have too.

As much as I'd like to post the operator's name and number here and see him innundated with nasty calls, I also know that there is a libility concern, so I agree with what Eagleflip said.

Currently, my friend is still in his old place not far from me outside of Philadelphia. I imagine they spent the day unpacking. Tomorrow, they are going to a family reunion, and will return on Sunday.

He has over 3,400TT, some 500 multi, and has PIC experieince in the Chieftain and SIC in the C90. He has current instructor certs, too. He has been unable to find anything in Philly, Allentown, Reading, or Chester County. He probably has over 1,000 dual given.

 

[npowless]

This reminds me of something I learned in my Business Law class - "promissory estoppel" - wouldn't my professor be proud!

Here is a definition from a website I found: "A doctrine in which a non contractual promise may be made enforceable to avoid an injustice"

The example my professor gave in class went something like this: A professor in California quits his job at a university to come and work at Auburn University. The professor moves to Auburn and buys a home. When he reports to the Auburn administration they inform him that there is no longer a position available. The professor could seek relief under promissory estoppel..

So sometimes without a written contract it may be possible to get relief... but wouldn't that be a hassle! I'm not a lawyer though .. so who knows. Good luck to your friend!

Nathan

 

[bobbysamd]

Promissory estoppel

I like that!

That which arises when there is a promise which promisor should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance of a definite and substantial character on part of promissee, and which does induce such action or forbearance, and such promise is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of promise. Elements of a "promissory estoppel" are a promise clear and unambiguous in its terms, reliance by the party to whom the promise is made, with that reliance being both reasonable and forseeable, and injury to the party asserting the estoppel as a result of his reliance. See Restatement, Second, Contracts, § 90.

Black's Law Dictionary (Abridged 2nd edition, 1990), at p. 843. (emphasis added)

Of course, you have to be able to prove each of these elements to establish a prima facie case. That is not as easy as it sounds. One thing I've learned as a litigation paralegal is that no matter how obvious a case may seem, no case is easy to prove.

Good legal theory, npowless.

Timebuilder, your friend really should see a lawyer.

 

[KlingonLRDRVR]

I would definately pull the dirtbag into small claims court and get a judgment for all the expences he has cost your friend. In MN the costs would be about $50.00 but in MN you have to do it in the dirtbag's county. You could at least cost him half a day of running and I'm confident that a juge would at least award expences for the move and maybe more. Max limit in MN is $7500.00. Good Luck.

KlingonLRDRVR

P.S. see a lawyer first as in some states a jugement in your favor in small claims court could preclude you from going after him for additional damages. If the lawyer says its not worth going after him do it yourself through the small claims route. Even if you lose you get him to waste half a day and you can look him in the eye and ask him if he can live with what he has done. That opportunity is worth $50.00 alone.

 

[flyby]

Hey, that sounds familiar... it was right around the end of summer of 2001. I had the exact same thing happen to me. Then it happened again when... ahh... nevermind.

Aviation is no place for a nervous person. I think only the very lucky avoid getting their share of shi77y cards dealt to them.

Best of luck to you and your friend.

flyby

A charter operator posts a job, and a friend of mine applies, and is awarded the job after driving across the state for an interview. He arranges for a new apartment, and visits some churches to find one that is right. He drives back accross the state. He tells his part time employer that he has finally found another job in aviation after over a year of unemployment. He starts packing, looking forward to some ground school to begin next Monday. His wife is getting ready to move with my friend and their child to this new opportunity.

Wait, it gets better.

This charter guy had two employees leave for new jobs. For whatever reason, they don't want to, or can't, stay in their new jobs, and call their old boss, who gives them their jobs back, AFTER hiring my friend. Now, my friend is staying here, and wondering what hit him, with no job at all.

Right or wrong? What do you think?