Check list vs Do list

[GravityHater]

Doing these as a do list will bite you in the but one day.

All that was helpful, thanks.

This last note interests me and might provide the final push I need to fix this issue, tell me more please.

 

[Cardinal]

I have always been taught as each phase of flight comes up, pull the appropriate list and go down it one by one, performing and confirming the action

You've "always been taught" that way because it's a heck of alot easier to teach that way. Initial flight training in pursuit of the private is a monumental stack of information, making students memorize established flows to complement good checklist usage would add to that burden. It might work in some Part 141 environments, but not at the Grace L. Ferguson Flight School and Storm Door Company. It makes the instructors job much easier when they can hand an exhaustive checklist to the student and just say "do it." At least things generally get done, and the instructor can save his breath for other things.

It works, but it's still not the best way. As an aspiring professional pilot (presumably) you should be in the loop to a greater degeree. Regarding normal procedures, you should have a sufficient grasp of the systems, operating environment, and situation to know to prime the engine when it's cold, know when your nav lights should be on, know why it's vital to turn on an electric fuel pump at certain times, have selected a flap setting, etc. After you've accomplished all these operational necessities, you can blow through the checklist at high speed and minimize heads down time.

Call it a flow, call it vorschtein, call it airmanship, whatever. Regardless, you're the pilot, fly the airplane, the checklist should only be a backup to your overall situational awareness. I thinks that what FR8Mastr was getting at. Only exception should be non-memory item abnormal procedures.

 

[FN FAL]

I guess I am resigned to remain in a state of confusion. There is no way on earth I can remember hundreds of lines of checklists for all the aircraft I fly.

Theory pilots, that what the DZO calls them.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Checklist vrs. Do List.....

OK what do you think? I'm a DPE and I'm giving a Commercial Pilot test in an Arrow. I tell the applicant that the checklist is missing so proceed as you wish. Some say they'll cancel the flight because of no checklist. Some insist on using out the POH checklist. Some say no problem and go anyway.

If you have NO checklist on board and decide to go anyway, here is a good mental checklist to use.

CC-CIGAR.

Controls
Canopy (Door)
Cowl Flaps
Instruments
Gas
Attitude (Trim)
Runup

Your questions and/or comments are welcome

 

[sargeanb]

My school has always taught flows, from day 1 (yes, even in the 172). The students who perform "read and do" in flight usually take about twice as long to perform their tasks, and are less situationally aware (looking inside too much and not flying the airplane). Flow-type checklists take more study and experience, but I've found they are much more efficient.

Items that are not time-pertinent such as preflight and after engine start, can usually be put on a "read and do" list. And with more complex airplanes, the checklists get longer, and "read and do" type lists become more and more cumbersome. As was mentioned above, they method used depends onthe company and equipment, but from what I understand, the majority use flows and checklists.

 

[Big Duke Six]

One other thing - the PNF is not there just to read the checklists. Most of the time he should be doing SOME if not ALL of a given checklist while the PF confirms it. It just depends on the aircraft and which controls are on the PF's side at that time (ie on the ground the CA is always driving so he does his flows while I do mine based on what he can reach and what I can reach). In the air though, at least in the 'Bus, the PNF sets everything up then when he reads the checklist, the PF confirms them at that time. In certain phases of flight though, the CA always has his own flows whether he is flying or not (ie in the climb passing 10000 and in the descent passing 10000 etc).

The PF should primarily be concerned with FLYING, not acting on and responding to every little item in a read-and-do checklist as you describe. Just MHO.

 

[Say Again Over]

If you have NO checklist on board and decide to go anyway, here is a good mental checklist to use.

CC-CIGAR.

Yes, I hope flight instructors still are teaching some type of method to stay organized without a check list, I still make it a point to throw down the skates on downwind abeam the numbers (on a visual app), something that was instilled in me by my commercial instructor.

 

[FR8mastr]

All that was helpful, thanks.

This last note interests me and might provide the final push I need to fix this issue, tell me more please.

Gravity,
The biggest problem that can come up is you will simply forget to do something. I will give you a worst case scernerio but it will most likely come up with much less than this.

You find yourself is some sort of emg. situation. from something as serious as engine(s) out, or flight control malfunctions, various states of no power, or even sick and complaining passengers. What can happen is you will be distracted by all the unusual goings on. Add that to ATC constantly buzzing in your ear plus the usual airmanship stuff, and you will be overloaded in a heartbeat. this is where the flow comes in to save the day. You will have done the critical things by memory without thinking about them. Compared to not doing anything unless instructed by the checklist. You might not have time to read a checklist, or maybe is some situation, like electircal failure at night, you cant read it anyway. Granted, it probably would never be that cut and dry, you will try to get everything, but if you have not practiced and developed flows for your aircraft this is where you WILL forget something. I hope this helped.

 

[GravityHater]

All positive contributions help, thanks.

 

[mcjohn]

I was trained in an environment where they made you physically read the checklist off as a to do list for my PPL and Instrument. It almost caused me to fail my commercial checkride at a different school. Getting glued to your checklist without having flows is deadly IMO and I wish the initial training I recieved never went there. Proved to be a hard habit to break.