Check Airman and/or APD question

[dondk]

I got one for the checkairmen or APD's or anyone who can give a clear answer....

You start ground school on July 18th, 2001 when is the LATEST you MUST have your recurrent by?

Second quesstion... IF you are not qualified in the aircraft (recurrency), can you be requalified with just a PC?

I got a friend who's company is telling him he is good to go, and a company check airmen who is saying he needs recurrent FIRST then a PC. His PC is in a few days and recurrent is a few days after the PC.

SO who is right? I know of a "grace" month, but I thought it was from the start of training, not the end of training.

thanks in advance

 

[Rick1128]

After looking through my copy of the regs and my check airmen guidelines, your guess is as good as mine. There is really no guidance in that area. The Air Carrier Inspector's Handbook seems to indicate that the prefered order is recurrent, then PC. All the regs require is that they both be done by the 12th month. Your friend's company operations manual and training manual may shed much more light on the matter.

The answer to your first question is there is no time requirement to finish training. It sounds like there is more to that question. More information needed.

The second question is No, usually. You must have recurrent training on an annual basis. The amount is set within the company training manual. There are sometimes provisions allowing for the crediting training via testing out. Depends on the particular training program.

As for the grace month, it is set by your base month. And that is usually set by your initial checkride. Unless it is reset by requalification checkride, upgrade or transition.

 

[dondk]

rick1128

From what I understand....

THis dude was out due to on the job injury. During that time he missed currency (90 days), all of his classmates did recurrent a month ago and the company is telling him all he needs is a PC and he is good to go.

One check airman at the company mentioned that from the START of intial training is the 12 month clock with a "grace" month.

The companys position is the clock starts at the END of the intial training and hence the grace ends this month (july start, Aug end).


The issue at hand is from what little that can be discerned... He is obviously no longer current and "qualified" is one of the questions. To add to the mystery, due to the accident he did not consolidate his knowledge either in a timely manner.

The only comment his company has said is... this is uncharted territory. The obvious worry is doing something against the reg's that bites him in the backside later....

 

[Rick1128]

From the information you're giving me I would say this pilot is a F/O. Since the people he took class with did recurrent last month, I would say that he would ned to do recurrent class.

As for grace month, the check airman and the company are both wrong and they are both right. Now that I have you confused. It depends on when the pilot's base month was set. Most companies and every company I have ever worked for sets the base month as the month when the training is completed and the training records are signed off. Usually just before the checkride. And that is how every FAA inspector I have dealt with does it. When they conduct a checkride and set a base month, they set it according to when the checkride was completed.

The 90 day currency really only deals with landings. And that will be dealt with during the checkride.

Based on what you are telling me, I personally would takl with the Diector of Training and discuss my concerns with him. If I were in this pilot's position. Use phrases like 'protecting the company'.

Hope this helps.

 

[dondk]

Rick1188

Thanks for the info...

He is a FO, and the base month was determined to be the end of training like you said. The Check airman considers it from the onset of training (why the difference is beyond me).


I know he has calls into the director of training, he is getting confilicting info from training clerks and the check airman. That is the root of the problem to be honest.

The time frame between end of training and checkride was about a month, so he has 2 different base months, I think this adds fuel to the confusion as the PC will be the "new" check ride and it is BEFORE the recurrent that he assumes should be BEFORE the PC.

Thanks for the info and I assume the director of training will call tomorrow and verify basically what you state...

 

[FD109]

I got one for the checkairmen or APD's or anyone who can give a clear answer....

You start ground school on July 18th, 2001 when is the LATEST you MUST have your recurrent by?

Second quesstion... IF you are not qualified in the aircraft (recurrency), can you be requalified with just a PC?

I got a friend who's company is telling him he is good to go, and a company check airmen who is saying he needs recurrent FIRST then a PC. His PC is in a few days and recurrent is a few days after the PC.

SO who is right? I know of a "grace" month, but I thought it was from the start of training, not the end of training.

thanks in advance

Most of the time, Recurrent comes before a PC, but there is no requirement for that. If they are both required, then both must be completed but the order doesn't matter.

Due months and grace months are based upon when the training is completed (the PC).

One caution though, the approved training manual/program for the company is controlling. Looking in the Regs may or may not give you the right answer.

If the pilot complies with his company's approved program and, of course, if this is documented then the pilot is safe fed wise.

At the last company where I was a director of training, we had the feds disallow something that had been approved in our training manual for over two years. Several pilots had to go back and re-do one day of ground school, but they were not violated and had no fed problems for themselves.

What really happened was that our POI got into a pissing contest with Region and we got caught in the middle. Oh well, such is modern aviation.