Chautauqua Outlook

[I.P. Freley]

How can you respond to that???

Why would I bother? Clearly I don't understand the argument.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Republic Airway Holdings will buy MDA. Not only the aircraft but the certificate as well. Remember, they still don't have one for Republic. It will be easier to buy MDA's. It would solve the American Connection concerning the 6 month timeframe to convert the 170's to Republic.

Considering that Wexford hasn't "bought" a certificate they already own (Shuttle America) for RAH, I don't see why you'd think they would buy someone else's.

I have very good reason to believe that this is already in the works in case US liquidates.

I guess we'll see. Word is that the Republic certificate will be ready in time, but you know how "facts" like that tend to not be so factual at all.

 

[KingAirer]

How can you respond to that???

IP, guess you didnt see what I was talking about. How can you argue with some one who says "YOUR an Idiot"...Clearly it is "You're" not YOUR. I really could care less about these things, but when calling someone an idiot, you should check these things!

 

[I.P. Freley]

IP, guess you didnt see what I was talking about. How can you argue with some one who says "YOUR an Idiot"...Clearly it is "You're" not YOUR. I really could care less about these things, but when calling someone an idiot, you should check these things!

I guess the sarcasm intended in my response to dumb-dumb's assessment of my intelligence didn't translate well to the screen, Kingairer.

Trust me, I noticed. Thus... Why would I bother responding?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Busted!

What I do have a problem is that this person fails to include more than half of the other regionals that are paid the same or less than CHQ pilots. Shall I name them??? TSA, Indy AIR, Jet BLue(190 rates) Mid Atlantic, COEX Shall I continue.

By what measurement are you comparable to or higher paid than FlyI pilots?

50 seat rates are the same or, in most cases, few bucks higher in both seats at FlyI.

Check before you post, please.

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/independence/independence.htm

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/chautauqua/chautauqua.htm

 

[TWAER]

I did look buddy. I make the same as a Indy capt. and the Airbus pay is a joke as is our 170 pay. Please look before YOU post. I said same or less... 25 cents an hour in not that much more.............

 

[350DRIVER]

C, she is a f/a on the 170 IND. F.o/F.a pay is probably the same.

carry on

3 5 0

 

[storminpilot]

Bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**e, Republic Airway Holdings will buy MDA. Not only the aircraft but the certificate as well. Remember, they still don't have one for Republic. It will be easier to buy MDA's. It would solve the American Connection concerning the 6 month timeframe to convert the 170's to Republic.

I have very good reason to believe that this is already in the works in case US liquidates.

MDA doesn't have a certificate. They fly under USAirways ticket.

 

[I.P. Freley]

MDA doesn't have a certificate. They fly under USAirways ticket.

Ah, yes, thus their "USAIR" call sign. Somehow that one slipped by me... Another reason, I guess, why RAH won't buy buying MDA, huh?

In the event USAir liquidates, they can still buy the airplanes, if they really wanted 'em...

Unless someone else were to bid higher, of course. Not like THAT would ever happen...

 

[C210drvr]

I did a 10 year pay compairison on CHQ vs. Comair. Upgrade at CHQ is about a year and 9 months. What is it running at Comair? 6 years? Based on those figures two pilots that got hired a year and 9 months ago, one at CHQ and one at Comair, the CHQ guy is a captain now. Over a ten year period the CHQ pilot will earn $60,000 more.

That number doesn't include CHQ's Christmas bonus. On average I think most people got a check for $1000 as a Christmas bonus. 1st year was around $250 2nd was about $1000 and it went on up to some people getting $1750. So, if you add that in then over the same ten year period CHQ pilots will make about $70,000 more than a Comair pilot.

So now the question becomes who really makes more? I don't think anyone "intends" to spend more than ten years at a regional.


C210

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

I did a 10 year pay compairison on CHQ vs. Comair. Upgrade at CHQ is about a year and 9 months. What is it running at Comair? 6 years? Based on those figures two pilots that got hired a year and 9 months ago, one at CHQ and one at Comair, the CHQ guy is a captain now. Over a ten year period the CHQ pilot will earn $60,000 more.

That number doesn't include CHQ's Christmas bonus. On average I think most people got a check for $1000 as a Christmas bonus. 1st year was around $250 2nd was about $1000 and it went on up to some people getting $1750. So, if you add that in then over the same ten year period CHQ pilots will make about $70,000 more than a Comair pilot.

So now the question becomes who really makes more? I don't think anyone "intends" to spend more than ten years at a regional.


C210

Talk about comparing apples to oranges. This is how you would justify those pathetic Captain rates? Gemme a break.

 

[low-key]

pretty sure that MDA is going to be tacked on to US Airways certificate and it will all be the same as AAA.

 

[FDJ2]

Talk about comparing apples to oranges. This is how you would justify those pathetic Captain rates? Gemme a break.

Talk about the kettle calling the stove black, AFELLOW, do you ever wonder why DAL outsourced to you in the first place? I guess it was o.k. when you were the cheap ho, but now that there is a company, regional airline of the year I believe, that can deliver a superior product, the E170, at a competive rate you feel threatened. Good thing for you that the DAL pilots were able to secure for you more DCI scope then you ever did for yourself.

 

[Axel]

Talk about the kettle calling the stove black, AFELLOW, do you ever wonder why DAL outsourced to you in the first place? I guess it was o.k. when you were the cheap ho, but now that there is a company, regional airline of the year I believe, that can deliver a superior product, the E170, at a competive rate you feel threatened. Good thing for you that the DAL pilots were able to secure for you more DCI scope then you ever did for yourself.

Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em

Little fleas have lesser fleas, and on ad infinitum

 

[sweptback]

Talk about the kettle calling the stove black, AFELLOW, do you ever wonder why DAL outsourced to you in the first place? I guess it was o.k. when you were the cheap ho, but now that there is a company, regional airline of the year I believe, that can deliver a superior product, the E170, at a competive rate you feel threatened. Good thing for you that the DAL pilots were able to secure for you more DCI scope then you ever did for yourself.

This argument keeps getting tossed around, but it's kind of apples to oranges. Back when Comair and ASA started feeding Delta, they fed using planes that mainline (management or pilots, either one) did not want to fly, and did not have a pay rate for. That's the important part.

So the regionals, while being "cheaper" than mainline, weren't really undercutting mainline because there was no 30-seat turboprop or 50-seat jet payrate to compare to.

I agree that 70-seat flying gets tricky because the turboprops and 50-seat jets have always had limitations that prevented them from effectively replacing mainline, however the current 70-seaters are pretty close to covering 100-seat flying with a few extra round trips thrown in.

Now, we have regionals that compete with other regionals product-for-product. This in itself isn't a bad thing, as America thrives on a free market economy. The problem is that there are a limited amount of these airplanes to go around, so every time one company works willingly for less, other companies have to follow in step or be prepared to justify their price differential.

It boggles my mind that the first two operators of the 170 (an airplane that weighs more and is certified to hold more people than the 700, both metrics of which are used in determining pilot pay) accepted pay much lower than the industry-high 700 payscale. Selling out for growth only makes sense while the growth continues. I'm thankful that Delta has limits on 70 seaters, and I was disappointed to hear that the limits were relaxed, even though it was possibly beneficial to my company. Maybe I'm off-base but I think there are some things that are more important than a quick upgrade, namely a next job to look forward to after the upgrade.

To those that say "we'll fix our payrates in the next contract," I have one thing to ask you (ignoring the fact that a lot of damage will be done during the duration of your contract). What are you going to value as more important the next negotiation round, payrates, or quality of life improvements to keep you in step with the other airlines' contracts? Because basically what you're doing, whether you know it or not, is setting yourself up to always have an inferior contract. Getting that extra day off next time around, or fixing your broken reserve system (that seemed like a good idea at the time of your contract until your company read between the lines and shredded it to pieces) is going to cost you payrates... payrates that you don't have room to negotiate with. Good luck.

 

[jaybird]

To those that say "we'll fix our payrates in the next contract," I have one thing to ask you (ignoring the fact that a lot of damage will be done during the duration of your contract). What are you going to value as more important the next negotiation round, payrates, or quality of life improvements to keep you in step with the other airlines' contracts? Because basically what you're doing, whether you know it or not, is setting yourself up to always have an inferior contract. Getting that extra day off next time around, or fixing your broken reserve system (that seemed like a good idea at the time of your contract until your company read between the lines and shredded it to pieces) is going to cost you payrates... payrates that you don't have room to negotiate with. Good luck.

I wasn't here at CHQ for the vote, but one of the main reasons for the lower pay (which was an improvement over the last contract) was due to stoping the formation of an alter ego carrier. Additionally I think I can say with confidance that our work rules are just as good as any other regionals out there.

Also, I'm curious as to what other companies require for health insurance premiums? AFA, anyone?

 

[Otto]

I did a 10 year pay compairison on CHQ vs. Comair. Upgrade at CHQ is about a year and 9 months. What is it running at Comair? 6 years? Based on those figures two pilots that got hired a year and 9 months ago, one at CHQ and one at Comair, the CHQ guy is a captain now. Over a ten year period the CHQ pilot will earn $60,000 more. So now the question becomes who really makes more? I don't think anyone "intends" to spend more than ten years at a regional. C210

C210drvr,
For those at CHQ that were lucky enough to be hired in the past 2-3 years, your analysis is correct but your thinking is still flat wrong. The gist of the idea is "lower pay is okay if I upgrade quicker because low Captain pay is better then the highest FO pay somewhere else" right? You say the upgrade at CHQ is 1 year and 9 months but the reality is that a new hire today has a much longer upgrade date. You have 112 aircraft with 27 E-170s on the way (11 for UAL and 16 for DAL) for a total firm number of 139. Assuming 10 pilots per plane, that means as of now you will only need about 1400 pilots by the end of 2005. That means anyone 900ish or below will certainly be facinig more then a 1 year 9 months upgrade. To be guaranteed an upgrade, a new hire today would need CHQ to acquire 81 more aircraft over the next year...highly unlikely, especially when you consider 33 current planes are dedicated to U.S. Air so who knows what will happen to them. Lower pay for growth is a bad idea because at some point, the growth has to stop and you are left with simply lower pay. But you are thinking "Yeah it sucks for our stuck FO's but I got my PIC time and I can move on" right? You allude to this:

"So now the question becomes who really makes more? I don't think anyone intends to spend more than ten years at a regional."

That fact is there are many people at ASA, Comair, Eagle, etc who never thought they'd be lifers but suddenly they are and someday there will be many at Chq who will find themselves in the same boat...maybe even YOU. There simply aren't going to be anough major jobs to absorb all of the regional pilots. With that in mind, you'd better make each contract a good one. I don't really blame you guys for the last contract since mgt. had a gun to your head with Republic but PLEASE don't use this low pay for growth arguement with me!

 

[I.P. Freley]

1 year and nine months?

A friend of mine is upgrading next month and he's been there since the last quarter of '02. That makes it over two years by my count...

Obviously that number changes from month-to-month, but he will have been there nearly six months longer than that "1 year nine months" when he starts ground school. That's still a quick upgrade by any standard though, at least "these days".

 

[i'mbatman]

1 year and nine months?

A friend of mine is upgrading next month and he's been there since the last quarter of '02. That makes it over two years by my count...

Obviously that number changes from month-to-month, but he will have been there nearly six months longer than that "1 year nine months" when he starts ground school. That's still a quick upgrade by any standard though, at least "these days".

Not everyone upgrades the day their number is up....also, he may have needed more time to get the necessary time req's.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Not everyone upgrades the day their number is up....also, he may have needed more time to get the necessary time req's.

Unless you need over 4000TT for upgrade, his time wasn't the issue... He upgraded as soon as he was able.

 

[172driver]

Additionally I think I can say with confidance that our work rules are just as good as any other regionals out there.

Also, I'm curious as to what other companies require for health insurance premiums? AFA, anyone?

Oh really? What is your max duty day? Rest rules? What kind of rigs do you have? Who provides your pager?

I am a single guy. I pay $26.82 a month for medical. How does it compare?

 

[Afixedwing]

Oh really? What is your max duty day? Rest rules? What kind of rigs do you have? Who provides your pager?

I am a single guy. I pay $26.82 a month for medical. How does it compare?

Max duty day: 14hrs
Rest Rules: Too convoluted to memorize
Rig... you mean my fishing rod?: a four-piece 5wt Sage DS2
Pager: You have to carry a pager? that sucks.

 

[Stick Man]

Survey says EEEEEHHHHNNNTTTT! Try again I.P.

Unless you need over 4000TT for upgrade, his time wasn't the issue... He upgraded as soon as he was able.

WRONG I.P.

My friend and co-worker was hired in the spring of 03 and he is upgrading to CA in the Jan 25th class.

Your friend is a liar or you are. Your friend may have taken over two years to get awarded the base that he wanted or he may have waited for the ability to get a CA hard line, but he did not upgrade as soon as he was able. The J4J's have been told they will most likely upgrade in May or June and they were hired in October/November of 03. Do the math.

 

[FDJ2]

This argument keeps getting tossed around, but it's kind of apples to oranges. Back when Comair and ASA started feeding Delta, they fed using planes that mainline (management or pilots, either one) did not want to fly, and did not have a pay rate for. That's the important part.

Just wondering if you could provide a refence for the claim that mainline pilots don't want to fly regional jets? Perhaps there is a document that states that mainline pilots don't want to fly the small jets. Mainline pilots at DAL don't have a pay rate for 747s, A340s, 7E7s etc., does that mean we don't want to fly them too.

 

[sweptback]

Just wondering if you could provide a refence for the claim that mainline pilots don't want to fly regional jets? Perhaps there is a document that states that mainline pilots don't want to fly the small jets. Mainline pilots at DAL don't have a pay rate for 747s, A340s, 7E7s etc., does that mean we don't want to fly them too.

I'm not trying to start a flame war. All I said is that somebody, either management or ALPA, didn't want mainline flying regional jets. You guys scoped it out, right? That sure sounds like it wasn't wanted to me.

 

[jaybird]

Max duty day: 14hrs
Rest Rules: Too convoluted to memorize
Rig... you mean my fishing rod?: a four-piece 5wt Sage DS2
Pager: You have to carry a pager? that sucks.

Also, my favorite no junior manning. When I'm done, I'm done. No calls over ATL radio, or messages from ops telling me to call scheduling when I get on the ground. 12 days off for line holders and 11 days off for reserve.

Right now for my family and I it's $70 a month. I think for a single person right now it's 30.00 a month. I was just curious on this one, I have no clue what other regionals provide.

 

[172driver]

No junior manning is good but as to the rest of it...you may want to look at the work rules in some other contracts before spouting that you have the best. Not trying to rip you guys, I just don't like seeing you brag about a part of your contract that is clearly not something to brag about.

Just to clear up the inaccuracy, I perused your contract and here's what I came up with:

1. One less guaranteed day off per month for reserves (31 day month).

2. Your duty limit is 14 hrs scheduled,16 actual. Ours is between 11 and 13.5 scheduled (depending on rpt time), 12.5-14.5 actual.

3. No cancellation pay.

4. No block or better.

5. 75% deadhead vs. 100%.

6. $1.50 perdiem vs $1.75.

7. Straight pay for extra flying vs. time and a half.

8. 10 hr. ready/hot reserve vs. 6 hrs.

9. No health coverage for what...90 days?

10. How many hrs are your lines built to?

 

[jaybird]

Hey big guy don't get your panties in a wad. I never said we had the best, just that our work rules were as good as any other regional out there.

We do get cancellation pay with a 98.5% complteion factor.
We do get block or better.
No hot reserve.
I don't specifically remember when health coverage started it was 30 days or less.
Min line 78 hours max 92 hours

Who's contract are you reading?

 

[172driver]

Yours...you better read it again. If you get block or better, I sure didn't see it. The 10 hr hot reserve is definitely in there.

What about the rest of it? You still say your work rules are as good? Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

 

[jaybird]

Yours...you better read it again. If you get block or better, I sure didn't see it. The 10 hr hot reserve is definitely in there.

What about the rest of it? You still say your work rules are as good? Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

No CHQ pilot has ever sat hot reserve since I've been there, I sat reserve for four months when I started over a year ago. It may not specifically no hot reserve, but it's never used and probably never will be unless an unusual number of pilots start calling off last minute. I don't know what to tell you, but my paychecks always come with my block pay especially when it's over.

If I'm missing something here someone please let me know. 172, the other things you mention are compensation, except for your duty limits. Other than compensation, I'd bet our QOL is comparable to yours and much better than many others. Thats my opinion.