Chance to fly SIC - Question

[Northern Lights]

So what did you do?

Hey BoDean! How did it all turn out? Did you go on the flight? Did you log it as anything?

Just curious.

 

[flx757]

And did that half hour of MULTI SIC time make any difference in the big scheme of things whatsoever, other than what learning may have transpired?

 

[bobbysamd]

Acting v. "Acting" - Scary

The safety pilot:

. . .

3. Doesn't have the required currency (landing currency, night landing currency, lack of flight review, etc) to act as PIC on the flight . . .

So I could legally take someone with a private from 1980 (assume current medical) and hasn't flown since and have him be my safety pilot?

I have my ATP, but I haven't flown since 1993. (I had renewed my medical, but it went out in December). And I could serve, legally, as someone's safety pilot??!!?? Yes, I did read the reg.

There comes a time when good judgment trumps regulatory permissiveness. To paraphrase the expression, if nominated I will not go and if selected I will not fly.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Re: Acting v. "Acting" - Scary

I have my ATP, but I haven't flown since 1993. (I had renewed my medical, but it went out in December). And I could serve, legally, as someone's safety pilot??!!?? Yes, I did read the reg.

There comes a time when good judgment trumps regulatory permissiveness. To paraphrase the expression, if nominated I will not go and if selected I will not fly.

It is perfectly legal to do some solo PIC flying after 3 hours of CFI work and going to a WINGS progam 10 (or 20) years since your last time in an aircraft if you have a current medical. Hell, you could even log 3 takeoffs and landings to a full stop and carry passengers along with you on your next flight!

I totally understand that legal doesn't equal smart and I am not asking if it is smart. I was asking why it is legal. I always assumed once you lost your pilot currency, you would lose the ability to log PIC and anything like it (I assumed SIC was like PIC only a lesser version of it).

 

[bobbysamd]

Acting v. "Acting"

I have my ATP, but I haven't flown since 1993. (I had renewed my medical, but it went out in December). And I could serve, legally, as someone's safety pilot??!!??

It is perfectly legal to do some solo PIC flying after 3 hours of CFI work and going to a WINGS progam 10 (or 20) years since your last time in an aircraft if you have a current medical. Hell, you could even log 3 takeoffs and landings to a full stop and carry passengers along with you on your next flight!

(emphasis added)

That's a horse of a different color. By fulfilling those requirements, I would then be current and would have no qualms about serving as safety pilot. As part of my three hours, I would ask my instructor to let me practice out of the right seat (although, after spending as many hours as I have in it, it might seem more natural than the left! ). But, given the example above, although it might be legal, there is no way I would accept a request to be safety pilot.

 

[CDVdriver]

How about this...

Just had a brain fart Bodean, how about this scenario:
Decline the $100, if anything goes wrong you won't be the CFI paid for services........
Instead help him as much you can with radio's nav etc and hint that you will be available for any future trips.
A lot of people with their own airplane won't mind you flying it as long as they have got to know and trust you.
So maybe do not expect anything in the first couple of flights but if the guy likes you and sees you as a professional this may be the start of a long and loggable friendship...
...and legal.....

 

[BellyFlyer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: PIC v. SIC

Look at my post again. Those were all reasons why a safety pilot might not be able to log PIC. (As you obviously know, in order to =log= PIC, a safety pilot must also be =acting as= PIC.)

.......Just trying to curb the spread of misreading.

Mark,

I am sorry, I think I did misread your post. I can see what you meant now. I surely wasn't meaning to attack you, just the idea that those items are required to log PIC as a safety pilot. I still believe the reasons you mentioned would not prevent a safety pilot from logging PIC if s/he had one qualification........a CFI certificate. (and the other person was acting as PIC)

So, you might say I disagree that a safety pilot must act as PIC in order to log PIC.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Re: Re: Re: PIC v. SIC

Could you explain how this works? Is it an issue in how the logging of PIC vs SIC works?

Yes. It does. Take a look at the "known universe of logging" aka FAR 61.51 and 91.109 which deals with the requirement for a safety pilot.

In order to log PIC, the safety pilot must also be acting as PIC. If she is not, the she's limited to logging SIC, if anything.

So I could legally take someone with a private from 1980 (assume current medical) and hasn't flown since and have him be my safety pilot?

Sure. But remember that the safety pilot is a required crewmember and potentially something more than "just" a set of eyes. Whether I want more or less in a safety pilot depends on what I'm doing and where I am.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PIC v. SIC

So, you might say I disagree that a safety pilot must act as PIC in order to log PIC.

61.51 says
==============================
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time.
(1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person -
***
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under ... the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
==============================

In this case, the "the regulations under which the flight is conducted" is 91.109, which requires a safety pilot in simulated IMC.

61.51(f) deals with logginf SIC when a pilot

==============================
Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under ... the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.
==============================

If you can point to anything else in the FAR that allows a safety pilot to log =anything=, I'd love to see it.

a CFI certificate

That doesn't allow a CFI to log PIC as safety pilot. That allows a CFI to log PIC when acting as an instructor. A CFI who is not giving instruction is jut another pilot with a commercial certifciate.