Challenger 604 off runway in Almaty

[SeaSpray]

Do you Challenger guys even read the previous posts before you throw up a reply?

There have been four or more Canadair Regional Jet icing accidents in addition to at least three Challenger icing accidents and one Challenger fatality departure stall accident.

Other large cabin modern jets do not have this accident history.

Even the NTSB's Jim Clark said it was a CRJ/Challenger airframe issue.

Like NJAFracPilot said, you guys are in denial.


SS

 

[G100driver]

No matter how you slice it, all of these Challenger accidents were pilot error ... not the design of the airplane.

I do not think that it makes Dinger arrogant for pointing that out.

What makes pilots arrogant is thinking they they do not have to follow accepted rules and procdures.

 

[SeaSpray]

What you're suggesting, G100, is that the population of pilots flying Challengers are not as good as pilots flying other large cabin business jets because they are the only ones having icing/departure accidents.

I don't think this is the case. What I do think is that when the rest of us screw up in an icing situation our airplane doesn't kill us.

Dinger is arrogant because of his tone and regardless of what he says; statistically the next departure icing mishap will be another Challenger/ CRJ.



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[Bumz_Rush]

For a less hazing view I suggest you look at the sister site. www.pprune.com, Coprporate and Bizz Jet forum.

bumz

 

[Launchpad]

"""Dinger is arrogant because of his tone and regardless of what he says; statistically the next departure icing mishap will be another Challenger/ CRJ."""

I'll go ahead and disagree. I mentioned above that most all icing mishaps are pilot error, sometimes judgement of just departing.

The next icing accident will be because of pilot error, there is a chance that it could be a Challenger, or a G5, or a citation. All those planes have the same limitation.... "CLEAN AIRCRAFT CONCEPT"

 

[LJ45]

Maybe we should exclude the CL 300 until we get more data, since it has a new wing?

 

[svcta]

I've spent a lot of time on this wing with ice all around and I've been de-iced dozens and dozens of times.....and never had one of these problems(obviously). As it has been said, this wing is intolerant of any contamination so you simply DON'T TRY IT.

It was said above that the airline guys don't have the pressure of the high-rollers telling us to go go go.....why hasn't anyone addressed this issue here?

I know we all perceive pressure from the back in this environment, but that stuff will kill you. I would certainly agree that there is a vulnerability to contamination that is greater than average in this case, but I don't think of it as a flaw in the airframe.

There are far too many of these wings flying around day-in and day-out for it to be inherently dangerous....just (as the saying goes) terribly unforgiving of any oversight or neglect. As said above: CLEAN AIRCRAFT

P.S. I think the accident with C-FSKI was a low-energy go around, not a direct result of airframe ice, but a botched landing gone wrong(aren't they all).

 

[ruhroa]

P.S. I think the accident with C-FSKI was a low-energy go around, not a direct result of airframe ice, but a botched landing gone wrong(aren't they all).......unless the ice was picked up on the desent

 

[Wiggums]

There are many factors listed in the Air Canada accident, including the possibility being that ice accumulated on the wing. The reasoning is that the aircraft stalled 4.5 degrees before the engineering data shows it would. Interestedly enough, the TSB figures that missing and protruding sealant accounted for the aircraft stalling 2 degrees early. The main reason for the accident was poor airmanship.

The Challenger 850 accident in Moscow is still unclear. The crew was attempting to takeoff with the nose wheel steering MELd which is not permitted on a contaminated runway which may have been a factor.

The Birmingham pilots were negligent. All other aircraft parked around them were deicing, for some reason they did not. It's not like a Falcon or Gulfstream didn't deice either and made it.

 

[ttflyer]

Maybe we should exclude the CL 300 until we get more data, since it has a new wing?

Agreed. The 300 has a completely different wing then the other Challenger series. Bombardier's Advisory Wire about ice contamination does not apply to the 300.

That being said, like all airplanes, the wing must be free from contamination prior to flight...