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USMCAirWinger

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Posts
228
I saw this in another website. I hope this dude doesn't go after me with his legal knowledge because of copying this without properly citing him.

CFI's can't be contractors because: 4/2/2004 at 06:10:01

Don’t be scammed by another shady operator. If you work as a CFI, you should be paid for your efforts. After all, the school is well paid, why should you work for free? Negotiate a fair pay rate and working conditions for yourself, and get it in writing. It is required that you have a written agreement in most states. US DOL FSLA: Employer to furnish employee certain information. Each employer shall: (1) Advise his employees in writing, at the time of hiring, of the rate of remuneration, hours of employment and wage payment schedules, and (2) make available to his employees, either in writing or through a posted notice maintained in a place accessible to his employees, any employment practices and policies or change therein with regard to wages, vacation pay, sick leave, health and welfare benefits and comparable matters.
If you like answering phones and sweeping floors for free in between students, think about this: If you slip on that freshly washed floor while running to answer the phone (to book your next student), you are NOT covered by workmen’s comp.(unless you have your own policy, but you couldn’t get, let alone afford one). You, the starving CFI, giving away your labor, are now facing hospitalization, medical bills, and loss of income, while you get replaced by another “independent contractor”. Also, if you are paid by the hour for CFI work, you cannot legally volunteer your time to any other aspect of the business. No phones, no fueling, sweeping, washing planes, etc. For example, a person who is an employee cannot "volunteer" his/her services to the employer to perform the same type service performed as an employee. Of course, individuals may volunteer or donate their services to religious, public service, and non-profit organizations, without contemplation of pay, and not be considered employees of such organization. You can’t work for free, because we abolished slavery back in 1863.

To be an “independent” contractor: most states regulate business on public use airports. You may need a contract with your state to provide any commercial services on an airport. You must have: an office, workmen's comp, liability insurance, a tax ID number to resell your services to your contracted client. You may be liable for state sales taxes on your services. State statutes provide penalties for failing to engage in a contract where required by law. Simply accepting a 1099 does not make you a contractor, but accepting it and claiming to be independent without following the rules will subject you to prosecution from state aviation and tax bureaus, and federal tax authorities for non-payment of estimated income taxes, medicare, and social security payments.

The DOL and IRS do not consider the CFI to be a professional classification. You are not a teacher, you are a machine operator. That means you cannot be classified in a salary category with exemption from overtime. You can’t be classed as a teacher because you are not recognized by a professional degree, like a professor with a PhD would. Your FAA certs do not count, because the are certificates, not licenses. And the work you perform is not primarily abstract, requiring higher thought. It is instruction in how to operate a machine, no different from showing someone how to operate a fryolator at McDonald’s. The only possible exception would be teaching ground school ONLY, in a college environment, with your bachelor’s degree, and a state teaching certificate in your hand.

The Fair Labor Standards Act classifies cfi’s as: “flyers”, and along with the other employees of a flight school, are considered as hourly employees subject to the provisions of the FSLA, are not exempt from overtime and are therefore entitled to the full protection of the Act.

Read on for the straight story right from the US Department of Labor. IRS law also follows these judgements. It is impossible for any CFI to be seriously considered to be independent unless: he provides the plane, leases office space, telephones, has his own insurance, tax status, and operates his business as a stand-alone entity. Is this what you did?
An employment relationship under the FLSA must be distinguished from a strictly contractual one. In the application of the FLSA an employee, as distinguished from a person who is engaged in a business of his or her own, is one who, as a matter of economic reality, follows the usual path of an employee and is dependent on the business which he or she serves. The employer-employee relationship under the FLSA is tested by "economic reality" rather than "technical concepts." It is not determined by the common law standards relating to master and servant.
The U. S. Supreme Court has on a number of occasions indicated that there is no single rule or test for determining whether an individual is an independent contractor or an employee for purposes of the FLSA. The Court has held that it is the total activity or situation which controls. Among the factors which the Court has considered significant are:
1) The extent to which the services rendered are an integral part of the principal's business. (NO CFI MEANS NO STUDENTS FOR THE BUSINESS< THEREFORE< HE’S INTEGRAL)
2) The permanency of the relationship. (CFI’S PRACTICALLY LIVE AT THE AIRPORT)
3) The amount of the alleged contractor's investment in facilities and equipment. (CFI HAS ZERO INVESTMENT IN HIS WORKPLACE, OK, MAYBE THE HEADSET COUNTS)
4) The nature and degree of control by the principal. (BOSS SAYS I’LL REPLACE YOU ANYTIME FOR ANY REASON)
5) The alleged contractor's opportunities for profit and loss. (CFI TAKES WHAT LITTLE MONEY THE BOSS GIVES HIM, OR HAS TO HIT THE STREET)
6) The amount of initiative, judgment, or foresight in open market competition with others required for the success of the claimed independent contractor. (WHAT COMPETITION?)
7) The degree of independent business organization and operation. (THE CFI HAS NO BUSINESS ORGANIZATION> HE ACCEPTS AN HOURLY PAY FOR HIS WORK)

There are certain factors which are immaterial in determining whether there is an employment relationship. Such facts as the place where work is performed, the absence of a formal employment agreement, or whether an alleged independent contractor is licensed by State/local government are not considered to have a bearing on determinations as to whether there is an employment relationship. Additionally, the Supreme Court has held that the time or mode of pay does not control the determination of employee status.
Requirements
When it has been determined that an employer-employee relationship does exist, and the employee is engaged in work that is subject to the Act, it is required that the employee be paid at least the Federal minimum wage, -- $5.15 an hour effective 9/1/97 -- and in most cases time and one-half his/her regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of 40 per week. The Act also has child labor provisions which regulate the employment of minors under the age of eighteen, as well as record keeping requirements.
Typical Problems
(1) One of the most common problems is in the construction industry where contractors hire so-called independent contractors, who in reality should be considered employees because they do not meet the tests for independence, as stated above. A situation involving a person volunteering his or her services for another may also result in an employment relationship. For example, a person who is an employee cannot "volunteer" his/her services to the employer to perform the same type service performed as an employee. Of course, individuals may volunteer or donate their services to religious, public service, and non-profit organizations, without contemplation of pay, and not be considered employees of such organization.

Where To Obtain Additional Information
For additional information, visit our Wage-Hour website: http://www.wagehour.dol.gov and/or call our Wage-Hour toll-free information and helpline, available 8am to 5pm in your time zone, 1-866-4USWAGE (1-866-487-9243).
 
Machine operator??!!??

USMCAirWinger said:
The U. S. Supreme Court has on a number of occasions indicated that there is no single rule or test for determining whether an individual is an independent contractor or an employee for purposes of the FLSA. The Court has held that it is the total activity or situation which controls. Among the factors which the Court has considered significant are:
1) The extent to which the services rendered are an integral part of the principal's business. (NO CFI MEANS NO STUDENTS FOR THE BUSINESS< THEREFORE< HE’S INTEGRAL)
2) The permanency of the relationship. (CFI’S PRACTICALLY LIVE AT THE AIRPORT)
3) The amount of the alleged contractor's investment in facilities and equipment. (CFI HAS ZERO INVESTMENT IN HIS WORKPLACE, OK, MAYBE THE HEADSET COUNTS)
4) The nature and degree of control by the principal. (BOSS SAYS I’LL REPLACE YOU ANYTIME FOR ANY REASON)
5) The alleged contractor's opportunities for profit and loss. (CFI TAKES WHAT LITTLE MONEY THE BOSS GIVES HIM, OR HAS TO HIT THE STREET)
6) The amount of initiative, judgment, or foresight in open market competition with others required for the success of the claimed independent contractor. (WHAT COMPETITION?)
7) The degree of independent business organization and operation. (THE CFI HAS NO BUSINESS ORGANIZATION> HE ACCEPTS AN HOURLY PAY FOR HIS WORK)
Interesting article. Just a point or two that I would add:

If the company is providing you a paycheck at regular intervals, you are an employee. If you are paid a salary, and there are instructing jobs that pay salaries, obviously, you are an employee. If you are paid by the job, you might be an independent contractor.

No. 4, where the employer said he can replace you any time for any (or no) reason is correct. That is at-will employment. It sounds dire, but you still have certain rights, the most important might be unemployment insurance. As long as you can establish that you were not at fault for your termination, you are eligible for unemployment benies.

At-will employment is a two-way street. You can leave at any time without giving notice and, legally, there is nothing the employer can do to you. Of course, he can screw you in other ways, such as giving a bad reference. In that regard, he better tread lightly, but if you left without notice and he states the truth, you may be toast down the road in some companies' eyes. Do not hold your breath about pursuing defamation for a bad reference or wrongful termination - employment law cases are hard to prove and the quantity, standard and burden of proof rises to a very high level - higher than you might imagine.

I will again plug a good labor law book, Every Employee's Guide to the Law by Lewin G. Joel III, available at your favorite bookseller. It is well written and well documented.

I never thought of myself as a machine operator . . .
 
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USMCAirWinger said:
If you work as a CFI, you should be paid for your efforts. After all, the school is well paid, why should you work for free?

I stopped reading after this. I've been to three flight schools, all of whom were barely breaking even. That's the norm, and this guy's an idiot.
 
ZZzzzzz, ZZzzzzzz, welcome to the world of flight instructors and flightschools.
USMCAirWinger, Don't waste too much of your energy trying to make a big deal out of it; this is the way a vast majority of flightschools operate. What do you want to do about it?
 
Ok I don't know who you were calling an idiot but I'll leave it at that. I did not write this article, I posted it to see what you guys think. The argument of the profit margins...well you must be the same that uses that argument with regards to the regional's pay and while you are at it why don't you pay the flight school for the privilege of teaching at the school. Its all about being treated like a professional and until our peers stop whoring themselves and bending-over this will never change.
 
"Machine operator" wages, working conditions and employee "rights"

Originally posted by USMCAirWinger
If you work as a CFI, you should be paid for your efforts. After all, the school is well paid, why should you work for free? Negotiate a fair pay rate and working conditions for yourself, and get it in writing. It is required that you have a written agreement in most states. US DOL FSLA: Employer to furnish employee certain information. Each employer shall: (1) Advise his employees in writing, at the time of hiring, of the rate of remuneration, hours of employment and wage payment schedules, and (2) make available to his employees, either in writing or through a posted notice maintained in a place accessible to his employees, any employment practices and policies or change therein with regard to wages, vacation pay, sick leave, health and welfare benefits and comparable matters.
I placed two sets of quotes to make it clear that that was AirWinger citing from another source and it was not his writing.

What this writer proposes is not the real world. I have worked in radio stations, flight schools and lawfirms. I have had something like sixteen jobs during my life; not one involved a written employment agreement. Every one was at-will employment. (I had to sign a training contract at FSI.) A couple of places had employee handbooks. Working hours, etc., were given to me verbally. As far as pay was concerned, I was told what the job paid or told the scale. A couple of times I was asked my salary range. As a practical matter, for this kind of job, there will be no wage negotiation. You will take it or leave it.

The original writer is correct that the law requires timely notice must be provided about changes in various policies. But, what are you going to do if it is not provided? Quit? Go to the Department of Labor? Sing the Johnny Paycheck song, "Take This Job and Shove It"? I have had X number of jobs where I would have loved to do any combination of the above, but my need for the job outstripped my other motives. The way you deal with it is to get another job (and still be treated like sh!t. :( :) ).

I agree with AirWinger about not whoring-out oneself and being treated like a professional, but, here again, the article is interesting, but not real-world. Flight instructing is still primarily an entry-level job, and those who employ fight instructors know it. Most new pilots do not plan to be career instructors. Therefore, get what you can out of the job, i.e. experience and flight time, get out, and climb the next rung.
 
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The thing is I have seen both extremes. The lowest that I have seen is 8 per flt/hr. ,and the school that went to for my ratings had the instructors under a salary/hourly pay structure plus benefits. They are a very succesful flight school and the morale is pretty good. Now, I know that the smaller FBO type schools have a harder time doing this but they could always have the instructors do collateral jobs.

When you have a bunch of "independent contractors" flight schools may throw away resource management, meaning that if they overstaff it doesn't hurt them a bit while the instructors are at each others throats.

Don't get me wrong, I can't wait till I get out of flight instructing but the attitude that thats how it has always been done is pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty and doesn't make it right. I'm done ranting.
 
Ok I don't know who you were calling an idiot but I'll leave it at that.

Airwinger, not sure if you're pointing at me, but I definately wasn't accusing you.
Just wanted to get that straight.
 
Flight instructor treatment

USMCAirWinger said:
The thing is I have seen both extremes. The lowest that I have seen is 8 per flt/hr. ,and the school that went to for my ratings had the instructors under a salary/hourly pay structure plus benefits. They are a very succesful flight school and the morale is pretty good. Now, I know that the smaller FBO type schools have a harder time doing this but they could always have the instructors do collateral jobs.
At Riddle, we had personal leave, health, direct deposit, and a bonus system if you billed over a thousand hours per annum. It really wasn't that hard to do; one of the administrative ladies told me she could not understand why more people did not make bonus. Stage check pilots were salaried, with pay comparable to commuter captains of the day.

At FSI, we had good health, a 401-K and a bonus system. Despite excellent benies, morale was still bad because of how we were treated. Something like being rubbed continuously against a carborundum stone.

In my last job, we were paid straight salary that was barely liveable and no benies. Management consisted of the three United pilots who owned the company and two ex-AF field-grade officers. None of them knew anything about lightplanes. None understood why we couldn't fly our lone Seminole in known icing on a snow day. None understood why we couldn't deviate from the VFR portion of our course to do an instrument flight because the wx was down.
Don't get me wrong, I can't wait till I get out of flight instructing but the attitude that thats how it has always been done is pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty and doesn't make it right.
You're not wrong. But you cannot fight city hall.

It's a pity. If flight instructors were treated better, more pilots who like teaching would take it up as a career, and flight training overall would be upgraded. The foreign airline flight schools and perhaps a few colleges are the only ones who treat instructors like professionals.
 
Operating a fryolator at McDonald’s pays better.

Thats why I'm getting out of flying. It doesn't stop at the CFI either, now you pay dues as CFI, then as a cargo pilot, then as a regional pilot making 30K a year and then the big pay off comes when you get hired by a major airline. Yep, when the majors start hiring again you'll get yours! Its not like you'll be stuck at Regional X flying the "regional" route that goes from MIA to JFK. Oh wait a minute....
 

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