CFII Practical test gotchas?

[Catbert]

CFII practical test is coming up soon. I'm not really looking for gouge or war stories, mostly just questions and subject areas I may have missed. What were the areas of concentration during your oral exam? Was there anything that took you by surprise during the flight? (Yes, I do have the PTS ).

Thanks in advance,
Catbert

 

[flyer172r]

Make sure you know how all the instruments work. I didn't know them quite as well as I should've, kinda stumbled through explaining how an airspeed indicator works.

If it helps, when the examiner walked into the room he said, "Yeah, this is probably the easiest checkride you'll ever take."

 

[minitour]

Mine was my initial, so assuming this is an add-on, I'll leave out the FOI stuff which the examiner really seemed to like.

I'll second 172r's comments about instrumentation. Know how they work and what happens when they or part of their system fails...know it C-O-L-D!

Know your charts inside out...most of the symbols you'll want to know down to him asking you "what is the black box on the navaid box" and without looking you should know "its _____" (HIWAS on NACO charts?...using Jepps...can't remember the NACO symbols...)

Aside from that, try to remember also that GS and LOC needles get more sensitive as you get closer, yes...but...

...if you're a dot left, that one dot gets closer and closer to the centerline as you get closer...so if you're approaching the MM and a dot left...remind the student "just hold it there...you won't be too far off centerline".

Also, make a note OUT LOUD on an ILS or LOC approach what your mag heading is vs. what the inbound course is...then tell/ask/teach the "student" what side of the windo you'll be looking out (if crosswind corrections exist). That seemed to be impressive to the examiner.

Other than that, just keep real good situational awareness using any means necessary. If you're on vectors for an ILS using an LOM or LMM...if you see the ADF pointing at the wing, say something like "so now we know we're abeam MYFIX because..."

I'm sure you're ready if you're signed off. As an initial it was tough but fair...not sure how the add-on works.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

-mini

 

[MauleSkinner]

When you're intercepting the glideslope, and the examiner says "so...tell me about compass errors,", you reply "ok...when we're on the ground."

 

[aucfi]

When you're intercepting the glideslope, and the examiner says "so...tell me about compass errors,", you reply "ok...when we're on the ground."

Haha, good one.

My examiner stressed the four most important things on an approach that you must have memorized. Inbound course, MAP, minimums, missed approach procedures. This was part of the approach briefing during the oral. While in flight, after I briefed the approach and got established inbound, he took away the approach plate and said ok, lets see how well you briefed it.

Also dont forget to look outside. While the examiner is under the hood screwing up the approach, keep your eyes outside because its YOUR responsibility to see and avoid while the examiner/student is under the hood!

good luck

 

[USMCmech]

Make sure you know how all the instruments work. I didn't know them quite as well as I should've, kinda stumbled through explaining how an airspeed indicator works.

Am I the only one who thinks being required to practicly design the instruments from memory is overkill?

Either they work properly, or they don't. If they don't work right they should be removed, sent off and repaired. A&Ps are not allowed to repair them anyway, only special repair staions can. Knowing the abgle of tilt of the gyro in the turn cordinator dosen't help me when flying partial pannel.

Know what powers them, and a basic understanding how they work. That should be it.

 

[dumblonde]

I've been told you need to really know your endorsements, especially for an IPC, there are certain requirements that have to be met for the IPC. Make sure you know these cold. I'm also working on my double I. Best of luck to you, let us know how it goes.

DB

 

[Stifler's Mom]

If it helps, when the examiner walked into the room he said, "Yeah, this is probably the easiest checkride you'll ever take."

...and make sure you have a twenty dollar bill hidden in your palm when you shake his hand.

 

[I fLy pLaNeS]

I've heard of someone getting busted on the missed approach during a circle to land. Also to note, keep the situational awareness up. I failed my IFR ride on an on-the-field VOR because I didn't realize I was getting blown so quickly back into it. Now I make sure to watch the distance like a hawk.

 

[minitour]

Am I the only one who thinks being required to practicly design the instruments from memory is overkill?

Either they work properly, or they don't. If they don't work right they should be removed, sent off and repaired. A&Ps are not allowed to repair them anyway, only special repair staions can. Knowing the abgle of tilt of the gyro in the turn cordinator dosen't help me when flying partial pannel.

Know what powers them, and a basic understanding how they work. That should be it.

I have to agree with ya a little.

My pet peeve is memorizing how to draw the electrical system just like shown in the POH.

If I really wanted that detailed of a design, wouldn't I just turn to the systems section and look at the picture Cessna/Piper/Beech/whoever has already prepared for me?

Sure, I should know what happens if this fails or what if that fails, etc...but designing...its like reinventing the wheel.

-mini

 

[flyer172r]

I should clarify my earlier comment. What I really meant to say is that with all the IFR rules and procedures and stuff you have to know, sometimes being able to describe in simple terms how the instruments work can get relegated to the back of the mind. When I did my training describing the instruments was done on one of the early lessons then never thought about again, until the checkride. I kinda fumbled through describing an airspeed indicator, which I would like to see everyone reading this not do.

The examiner also mentioned that he had someone on a CFII ride fail because the were doing a full ILS, hit the outer marker outbound and started descending towards DA, while still going outbound. I would suggest not doing that.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I have to agree with ya a little.

My pet peeve is memorizing how to draw the electrical system just like shown in the POH.

If I really wanted that detailed of a design, wouldn't I just turn to the systems section and look at the picture Cessna/Piper/Beech/whoever has already prepared for me?

Sure, I should know what happens if this fails or what if that fails, etc...but designing...its like reinventing the wheel.

-mini

IMO, being able to draw the electrical (or other) system isn't a "memorization" issue, it relates more to levels of learning at the "understanding" level or higher. Since the thread is originally about CFII checkrides, I'd say it's very appropriate to require that level of knowlege of an instructor applicant.

I've also found that being able to draw an isolated section or component of a system at will aids tremendously in teaching certain students efficiently. It better allows teaching specific concepts without the distraction or, in some cases intimidation, of having the whole system in front of the student.

Fly safe!

David

 

[minitour]

IMO, being able to draw the electrical (or other) system isn't a "memorization" issue, it relates more to levels of learning at the "understanding" level or higher. Since the thread is originally about CFII checkrides, I'd say it's very appropriate to require that level of knowlege of an instructor applicant.

Thank God you didn't do my CFI rides (notice the smileys - I'm trying to make my sarcasm easier to detect 'round here)

I think getting into the understanding and higher levels of learning is great...but memorizing where stuff is laid out on the paper is rediculous.

Now...I can draw the system, how everything is connected, what sequence, etc...but exactly like the book? I think that's overkill.

My goal was to learn is and make life easier on myself...not become an artist for Cessna...

I guess that's my beef...I saw plenty-o CFI applicants come out of the oral with a pinky because they couldn't draw exactly like the book showed. I'm sure something sparked the examiner to require such detail...but still.

That's what I mean about knowing "if this fails, it effects ___". Yes you should have to know it, but not know it exactly like it says in the book...in this case.

Would I be wrong if I said a C172P had a "carburetor equipped, normally aspirated, bla bla bla engine"? The POH says "normally aspirated, carburetor equipped, bla bla bla bla engine". I've seen people busted for such things...I just think it's rediculous.

ooh...the other one was the examiner that wanted my buddy to recite exactly what the Airworthiness certificate says. "Unless surrendered suspended revoked or otherwise...." something like that. Yikes, eh?

...anywho...long post longer...I think we're agreeing...the Understanding, Application and Coorelation levels are the important stuff...not memorizing what's written in some book.

-mini

 

[MauleSkinner]

Thank God you didn't do my CFI rides (notice the smileys - I'm trying to make my sarcasm easier to detect 'round here)

No need for obviosity of sarcasm there...I've got copilots and students who would call me "the bastard stepchild of an illegitimate line" if they didn't know my parents

Now...I can draw the system, how everything is connected, what sequence, etc...but exactly like the book? I think that's overkill.

Yup...I see what you're saying now.

...anywho...long post longer...I think we're agreeing...the Understanding, Application and Coorelation levels are the important stuff...not memorizing what's written in some book.

Agreed.

Fly safe!

David

 

[minitour]

No need for obviosity of sarcasm there...I've got copilots and students who would call me "the bastard stepchild of an illegitimate line" if they didn't know my parents

mwahaha "bastard stepchild of an illegitimate line"...I'm so gonna remember that!

-mini

 

[Catbert]

Thanks all. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[LavMan]

I have never been asked in any ride to draw a system out? Granted I did my CFI,II, MEI a few years back, but have never been asked to do that? Currently flying at the 121 level, no one asks that even on a PIC oral. Crazy, find a different examiner.

 

[Catbert]

Well, I passed.

Not exactly the best instrument flight I ever made, but met the standards. Emphasis in this one was teaching, CFII limitations, endorsements, and privilages. Never did have to draw that d@mn electrical system.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

 

[pgcfii2002]

I took mine at Sheble's and there were absolutely no gotchas...very easy ride. I think the oral was 3 questions and the flight was an approach and hold.

 

[RichardRambone]

Congrats. I passed too on Wedsneday. Not my best flying but my examiner was pretty easy. He was more pilot to pilot and offered suggestions on teaching an instrument student. Now that dang MEI and ATP in some more hours and we'll be set.

 

[pgcfii2002]

My CFII ride was about 4 years ago.....can't wait to do my ME ratings there.

 

[Catbert]

He was more pilot to pilot and offered suggestions on teaching an instrument student.

Mine was the same way. About half the ride was him giving me pointers. "Now you're going to find students do this," and "watch out for thing x, they'll do that every time." I appreciated it, some were surprising.

Now that dang MEI and ATP in some more hours and we'll be set.

Yeah, now I only have to add the MEI, ATP, ASES, AMES, tailwheel endorsement, LR25 type rating...........

 

[TankerDriver]

...and make sure you have a twenty dollar bill hidden in your palm when you shake his hand.

As opposed to the $300+ cash it costs for a DE these days????

 

[flyer172r]

Congrats on passing the ride.