CFII Endorsement

[Flightist]

I'm having a hard time interpreting the regs. regarding signing off a CFII applicant. It seems to say that you need an instructor with the 24 months, etc. to sign off an initial CFI applicant. I knew that, but I can't seem to find the specifics that say what's required for a CFII applicant. Can a CFII without the 24 months sign off a CFII applicant (who already has their CFI)? The reg. mentions being signed off by a qualified instructor as a prerequisite for the checkride. Does a CFII applicant need any endorsement? What's the story?

Thanks for the input!

 

[350DRIVER]

you do not need a sign off bud for a II

c h e e r s

3 5 0

 

[midlifeflyer]

If you already have a CFI, then you are not a "first-time flight instructor applicant" and 61.195(h) doesn't apply. "First-time flight instructor applicant" means, well, an applicant who is trying to get his first CFI certificate, not an applicant who is trying to get a new rating on an existing CFI certificate.

FWIW, I don't agree with 350. I'm pretty sure you =do= need a sign off for the CFII because 61.187 (a) says

A person who is applying for a flight instructor certificate must receive and log flight and ground training from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in this section that apply to the flight instructor rating sought. The applicant's logbook must contain an endorsement from an authorized instructor certifying that the person is proficient to pass a practical test on those areas of operation.

There has been some question about the applicability of the applicability of the 61.39 60-day training endorsement to the CFI, with Lynch taking the position in the FAQ that

Even though a specific amount of training (like 3 hours) within the 60 days preceding the date of application in preparation for the practical test ". . . received and logged . . ." is not required of a flight instructor applicant, that applicant must show having received and logged SOME training within the 60 days preceding the date of application in preparation for the practical test.

 

[jdog78]

Having gone through this process recently, I'll try to clarify. As stated earlier, if you're an initial CFI applicant, then your instructor must meet the 24 months/200 hours requirements. If you're adding instructor ratings, that doesn't apply.
Regarding the 61.39 (60 day) endorsement, any time you take a practical, this endorsement is required. According to the Orlando FSDO, this is one of the most overlooked endorsements. So make sure you get that, in addition to the ground and flight training endorsements. Then you'll be all set. Good luck with your exam.

-john

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI-I signoff

You do need a signoff to take the CFI-I practical. 14 CFR 61.187 makes that clear:

(a) General. A person who is applying for a flight instructor certificate must receive and log flight and ground training from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in this section that apply to the flight instructor rating sought. The applicant's logbook must contain an endorsement from an authorized instructor certifying that the person is proficient to pass a practical test on those areas of operation.

14 CFR 61.187(a)(7) sets forth the training required for the CFI-I:

(7) For an instrument rating with the appropriate aircraft category and class rating:

(i) Fundamentals of instructing;
(ii) Technical subject areas;
(iii) Preflight preparation;
(iv) Preflight lesson on a maneuver to be performed in flight;
(v) Air traffic control clearances and procedures;
(vi) Flight by reference to instruments;
(vii) Navigation aids;
(viii) Instrument approach procedures;
(ix) Emergency operations; and
(x) Postflight procedures.

Finally, as long as the applicant is adding-on the rating to his/her current CFI certificate, you do not have to be a so-called "two-year" instructor to sign off an applicant for the CFI-I. 14 CFR 61.195(h)(2) mandates that requirement only for initial CFI applicants:

(2) Except for an instructor who meets the requirements of paragraph (h)(3)(ii) of this section, a flight instructor who provides training to an initial applicant for a flight instructor certificate must --

(i) Meet the eligibility requirements prescribed in §61.183 of this part;
(ii) Hold the appropriate flight instructor certificate and rating;
(iii) Have held a flight instructor certificate for at least 24 months;
(iv) For training in preparation for an airplane, rotorcraft, or powered-lift rating, have given at least 200 hours of flight training as a flight instructor . . . .

(emphasis added)

In other words, any current CFI-I can sign off a CFI-I applicant only as long as the applicant is adding the rating to his/her existing CFI certificate. If the applicant is seeking initial instructor certification as a CFI-I, the instructor training him/her and signing off him/her must be a "two-year" instructor.

I'm not a real fan of some of the "FAQ" sites. They provide some guidance but are never black-letter law. I would turn to AC 61-65D for better guidance, and write up the signoffs exactly as set forth on the AC.

Hope that helps some more.

 

[350DRIVER]

FWIW, I don't agree with 350. I'm pretty sure you =do= need a sign off for the CFII because 61.187

I always thought that you DID need a sign off for the CFII/MEI until I had signed off a II applicant and the chief instructor stated that this was not needed since it was an "add" on to the CFI.

I guess the FAR's speak for themselves....


should have researched this, only trained and signed off one II..


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[paid4training]

Okay so it is not a requirement to sign a II off or not? It seems as if it is not required but yes, dam FAR's...?

 

[minitour]

Okay so it is not a requirement to sign a II off or not? It seems as if it is not required but yes, dam FAR's...?

61.191 (a) A person who applies for an additional flight instructor rating on a flight instructor certificate must meet the eligibility requirements listed in §61.183 of this part that apply to the flight instructor rating sought.

61.183 (g) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in §61.187(b) of this part, appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought;
(h) Pass the required practical test that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought in an:
(1) Aircraft that is representative of the category and class of aircraft for the aircraft rating sought; or
(2) Flight simulator or approved flight training device that is representative of the category and class of aircraft for the rating sought, and used in accordance with a course at a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.




61.187 (b) Areas of operation.
(7) For an instrument rating with the appropriate aircraft category and class rating:
(i) Fundamentals of instructing;
(ii) Technical subject areas;
(iii) Preflight preparation;
(iv) Preflight lesson on a maneuver to be performed in flight;
(v) Air traffic control clearances and procedures;
(vi) Flight by reference to instruments;
(vii) Navigation aids;
(viii) Instrument approach procedures;
(ix) Emergency operations; and
(x) Postflight procedures.
(c) The flight training required by this section may be accomplished:
(1) In an aircraft that is representative of the category and class of aircraft for the rating sought; or
(2) In a flight simulator or flight training device representative of the category and class of aircraft for the rating sought, and used in accordance with an approved course at a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.


Hmm....usually that helps me piece through everything, but I got to admit that was about as clear as mud. I'll go with yes.

-mini

 

[G2T]

Yes you need a signoff, no it does not need to be from a 2 year cfi as long as it is not an initial c.f.i.

The most important question: Where did you find this three year old thread?:erm: