CFI Training

[INneedofajob]

-Any input would be greatly appreciated

I just graduated from college with my Commercial, Instrument and Multi. I have begun training for my CFI. My question is how much flight time and ground instruction is typiclly used if I try to do as much of it as I can at home? And how much time should it take for a left handed person to get used to flying from the right seat?

Thanks for any reply

 

[Timebuilder]

Perhaps someone who works at a large school can give you some typical time frames. I think I spent about 20 hours on right seat familiarzation and the maneuvers.

I don't believe that the change from one side of the airplane to the other side has anything to do with which hand you favor in daily life. Rather, it is simply a matter of what you are used to. The guitar is a good example. I'm right handed, and most of the real "work" on the guitar is done by my left hand. Jimi Hendrix is a good example of how you can play the guitar in a unconventional way, and adapt to your situation.

In the left seat, most of the work (flight control inputs) was done by my left hand, and I had to adjust to doing it with my right hand.

Maybe the biggest difference is one of perception. Everything looks different, and to a certain extent feels different on the "other side" of the cockpit. After a while, you become comfortable on BOTH sides of the airplane.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I agree with Timebuilder's comment about perception and feel.

For example, new CFI candidates have a tendency to land right of centerline, just as student pilots tend to land left. The answer is to keep the centerline centered and lined up between your feet, chest, or the yoke (or one of the other variations depending on the best visualization for you) rather than trying to center the nose or nosewheel.

This perception change is duel to parallax (go back to high school science). Not too many CFIs teach the method. Instead we learn how to adjust for it, which makes the other seat transition a bit more difficult. (It's still pretty easy, though).

Of course as one who's instructor had to keep saying, "No, Mark. The =other= throttle," as my hand kept going to the mixture to reduce power, perhaps I shouldn't talk.

 

[bigD]

Of course as one who's instructor had to keep saying, "No, Mark. The =other= throttle," as my hand kept going to the mixture to reduce power, perhaps I shouldn't talk.

Heh - deja vu...kinda...

I'm not a CFI, but I did try my hand at flying the Duchess from the right seat one evening with an MEI friend of mine. I guess when I did my complex checkout years ago, my brain started latching on to "outside in" when doing go arounds or rapid applications of power. So instead of thinking, "right to left", I'd just push the levers furthest from me first (mixtures), then work my way in towards me (props, then throttles). This is what caused me the most trouble from the right seat - the "outside in" technique doesn't work all that well!

I also found that my right arm isn't nearly as strong or precise as my left, at least not initially, so when I flare with the amount of pressure that I "think" is enough - the nose isn't nearly high enough. After about an hour or so of landings though, I felt pretty comfortable. The first couple weren't some of my finest, though! It was like being a student pilot all over again!

 

[bobbysamd]

Right seat flying

My personal experience in learning to fly from the right seat was that the takeoffs are about the same as from the left seat, normal flying is about the same, but landings are strange at first. You'll be surprised at how much hand coordination transfers.

I trained CFI students at ERAU and FlightSafety. Both schools provided something like twenty hours of flight time in their CFI courses.

One other thing that's different is your perspective of the instrument panel from the right seat. If you try to center the ball from the right seat you will also be in a slip or skid. When the ball is centered from the left seat's perspective it will appear to be halfway out from the right seat. You can fly instruments just fine from the right seat; I think that I developed a more or less permanent glance to the left and would have trouble getting used to scanning a full panel on the right!

Good luck with your CFI training.

 

[Speedtree]

Bobby,

I know what you are saying. I did a bunch of Instrument instruction and developed the sideways instrument scan. Started flying corporate and warming the right seat half the time. Couldn't get used to looking at my own instruments for awhile. When I was flying the thing I would be in the left seat so I did that for 3 1/2 years and now I am an FO for a regional. I was a little nervous about flying from the right seat again. I guess the simulator training helped because it wasn't as much of an issue as I thought it might be.


To the original poster. The time in the aircraft varies. I was in a 141 program so I had more time than the minimum part 61. I think the other guys had it about right.

The real trick is knowing how much to say and what to say in the aircraft. By the time you practice this with all the maneuvers the flying will probably be a non issue.


As for the ground instruction more is always better. You can know everything about the subject and have a perfectly drawn up lesson plan but until you actually teach it to someone who knows next to nothing about the it you won't know how good your lesson plan is. I reccommend a minimum of 40 hours of ground. This from experience giving final CFI stage checks and checkride preparation.

One way to save yourself money like you requested is to practice on others who won't charge you. Unsuspecting spouses/girlfriends, friends, relatives or whomever you can find.

The more you practice and work with a good CFI, the more comfortable you will be for the check-ride. Don't short-cut the CFI preparation. Your students lives may depend on it.

Best wishes in your endeavors.

 

[bobbysamd]

Honing your ground shtick

As for the ground instruction more is always better. You can know everything about the subject and have a perfectly drawn up lesson plan but until you actually teach it to someone who knows next to nothing about the it you won't know how good your lesson plan is. I reccommend a minimum of 40 hours of ground. This from experience giving final CFI stage checks and checkride preparation . . . .

I agree. My background is similar. I gave bunches of CFI stage checks at Riddle along with training CFI students.

I did write above that it takes a little time to get used to flying out of the right seat, but the flying comes. Where CFI students are often short-changed is in their ground training. Not everyone is a brilliant public speaker or lecturer. In fact, most people are not. Most people are scared as hell about standing up in front of a group of people to speak - until they understand that their audience is there to hear them speak and want them to do well. Also, most people don't understand that all they have to be are themselves when speaking.

It takes some time to hone your patois in the airplane and on the ground. Spending as much time as possible in front of the whiteboard developing your presentation is vital. Developing classroom instruction techniques is something where CFI student's instructor can perform a real service for his/her students. It's also a lot of fun for the instructor to pretend to be a boneheaded or unprepared student whom his/her trainee is trying to get through to.

Did I hear a recommendation about aspiring pilots taking as much English as possible in school, including public speaking? Now, you have a practical reason to do it.

Once more, good luck with your CFI training.

 

[Iceman21]

I have just started American Flyers 30 day CFI academy. I must say that it is an eye-opener.

I know getting all the material presented correctly and orderly is my problem. It's all in my head but getting out and in such a fashion that someone else can understand it is elluding me.

The flying isn't a problem at all. I am left handed so it is a bit different for me, but after 3 hours I am comfortable. Talking, looking for traffic, knowing exactly where we are, monitoring ATC, making sure the student is on track and not busting Class B is rather hard though.

Any advice on getting the presentations down?

Thanks

 

[KickSave]

I have just started American Flyers 30 day CFI academy. I must say that it is an eye-opener.

I know getting all the material presented correctly and orderly is my problem. It's all in my head but getting out and in such a fashion that someone else can understand it is elluding me.

The flying isn't a problem at all. I am left handed so it is a bit different for me, but after 3 hours I am comfortable. Talking, looking for traffic, knowing exactly where we are, monitoring ATC, making sure the student is on track and not busting Class B is rather hard though.

Any advice on getting the presentations down?

Thanks

Iceman21, I am just about to take my CFI checkride, and my experience in giving the lessons was the same as yours. My instructor constantly told me "You've got all the information in there, but your presentation is all over the map." Here is what he had me do, and it seems to have made everything much easier. This isn't a lesson plan, it's the format for my notes for giving the lesson itself.

Divide lessons up into what type they fall into based roughly on the PTS - Technical subjects, Systems, Flight Maneuvers. Then use a set format for the different type of lessons. For example, for all Systems lessons I now use the following format:

Definitions (Define ALL the terms you will use in the lesson)
Theory of Operation (explain HOW something actually works)
Usage (now that you know how it works, explain how you really use it)
Common Errors/Limitations (explain what can go wrong and how to deal with it)

Use this format when you are teaching Systems and things like Powerplants, Landing Gear, Electrical, Pitot Static and Vaccum/gyros. It also works well, with some tweaking, for most of the Techincal Subject Areas like Night Ops, High Altitude Ops, Flight Controls and Airspace.

For Flight Maneuvers, including normal and Crosswind TO's and LD's, he gave me a What, Why, Where, Who and How format that looks like this:

What? - Define what the maneuver is
Why? - Explain WHY we train and practice the maneuver (something beyond just "it's on the PTS")
Where? - Where will you practice the manuever, where would you use it in real life flying?
Who? - Private Pilots, Commercial Pilots, etc?
How? - This is the meat of the lesson. Explain step by step how to do the manuever. I use a set format here as well, like this:
1. Select the area
2. Determine the winds
3. Configure the airplane for the maneuver
4. Fly the maneuver (this one will involve the specifics of the maneuver, the prvious three items are frequently the same steps, such as with all ground reference maneuvers)
5. Common Errors (Keep this separate from the explantion of the maneuver, it will help with clarity and your flow)
6. PTS (list out what standards the student will have to meet to complete the maneuver)

Most all lessons can be given in a pre set format like these. My lessons went from 1 hour of me babbling, to 20 minutes of very organized teaching. I stopped forgetting items, or presenting items in completely the wrong order and confusing not only my student(my teacher actually) but also myself. I'm sure other CFI's can show you different formats that also work, these are just one method that worked well for me. Good luck.

/Dave

 

[Iceman21]

Thanks Dave,

I appreciate your time. I am not getting into the meat of the training in the next two weeks. I will be doing my CFI-I first and now we are working on the PTA's (Pilot Task Analysis) for the CFI-A. The CFI-I is easier than the I-A, in that it is more teaching procedures than outside visual references. It is starting to come together for me, but from what I have been told, we have not even gotten to the meat of the course yet.

Having a blast the whole time.

 

[OhioFlyO]

Don't worry about adjusting to the right seat. Don't worry about CFI training. There aren't any CFI jobs out there right now. Even if you graduated from college with all your certificates/ratings, you're not going to be competitive unless you have A LOT of time racked up. Good Luck!

 

[avbug]

Patois?

 

[Iceman21]

Don't worry about adjusting to the right seat. Don't worry about CFI training. There aren't any CFI jobs out there right now. Even if you graduated from college with all your certificates/ratings, you're not going to be competitive unless you have A LOT of time racked up. Good Luck!

I have a job lined up starting the day after I get my certs. Thanks for the heads up though.

It's not about the time you have, its about who you know.