CFI Question...

[stearmann4]

Dumb question, but I'm sure the collective experience on here will provide a clear answer. If a pilot is a CFI, goes and get's a commercial SES rating, does that theoretically make him legal (not neccesarily profficient) to instruct in seaplanes? Conversely, if I already have a commercial SES, then get my CFI, can I exercise CFI priviledges in a seaplane?

Thanks for your help.

Mike-

 

[dogismycopilot]

Yes and Yes!

 

[AC560]

Not 100% positive on this but do you actually need to have a commercial seaplane rating? The requirements for the issuance of a CFI rating is a commercial certificate, but I don't believe it is required to use one (which is why you only need 3rd class medical). So if you already had the CFI wouldn't just getting SES private give you instruction privileges in SES?

 

[mattpilot]

hm.....


The Single engine sea plane rating is a RATING, not an endorsement like high-performance or tail-draggers.


To be able to instruct in a plane for the purpose of logging time towards an FAA raiting, you need to hold the proper ratings on the FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR certificate, not the commercial certificate. Having them on the commercial certificate is simply a prerequisite for getting it on the flight instructor certificate.


So yes, even a private pilot can instruct anyone. But no, it would obviously not be considered useful instruction as it wouldn't count towards anything and is not loggable as dual received by any potential student.

 

[avbug]

The Single engine sea plane rating is a RATING, not an endorsement like high-performance or tail-draggers.

True, but also irrelevant.

To be able to instruct in a plane for the purpose of logging time towards an FAA raiting, you need to hold the proper ratings on the FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR certificate, not the commercial certificate.

Yes, and no. There is no seaplane rating on the flight instructor certificate. Only on the commercial pilot certificate. One who holds an airplane commercial pilot certificate with a seaplane rating may not provide flight instruction for any operating privilege or toward any certificate or rating. One who holds a flight instructor certificate with airplane privileges may not provide seaplane instruction unless he or she also holds seaplane privileges on his or her commercial pilot certificate. The flight instructor certificate states nothing about seaplanes, but is only valid when accomplanied by the commercial pilot certicate, and it is the commercial certificate that spells out the extent of the privilege granted by the flight instructor certificate.

So yes, even a private pilot can instruct anyone. But no, it would obviously not be considered useful instruction as it wouldn't count towards anything and is not loggable as dual received by any potential student.

Incorrect. In order to act as a flight instructor in an aircraft, one must be appropriately rated in tthe aircraft, as given in 14 CFR 61.195(b)(1):

§ 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
(2) If appropriate, a type rating.

Certainly the flight time is loggable. If a student intends to obtan a seaplane rating, which is a class rating to be added to an airplane category, then the student is going to require training in a seaplane, and to receive this, he's going to need to be trained by an instructor who is qualified in a seaplane. If the instructor is qualified and the instructor acts as an authorized instructor, providing flight instruction, of course the student can log it.

To say that a private pilot can instruct is not correct. A private pilot does not hold the privilege of providing instruction. While one may attempt to pass on training or knowledge without the instructor certifcate, one may also run into considerable difficulties, particular liability and legal difficulties, should one step outside the prescribed bounds of privilege. One who does not hold a flight instructor certificate may instruct under other circumstances, such as a training center or company training department, but only within narrowly defined guidelines.

Not 100% positive on this but do you actually need to have a commercial seaplane rating?

Yes. See above.

So if you already had the CFI wouldn't just getting SES private give you instruction privileges in SES?

No, see above.

 

[AC560]

Incorrect. In order to act as a flight instructor in an aircraft, one must be appropriately rated in tthe aircraft, as given in 14 CFR 61.195(b)(1):

§ 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
(2) If appropriate, a type rating.

He has a certificate which says he is a flight instructor he has a certificate which says he is rated in a ASES. It doesn't specify that the certificate needs to be commercial or ATP. The only place it does is for the initial issuance of a flight instructor certificate. So if he has an instructor certificate with appropriate ratings (check) and holds appropriate ratings on a pilot certificate (check) why can't he instruct?

I realize it is splitting hairs but it isn't clear to me why if he only added ASES as private he couldn't legally instruct.

 

[nosehair]

[/i]

I realize it is splitting hairs but it isn't clear to me why if he only added ASES as private he couldn't legally instruct.

Because if he added the SES rating at the private level, the rating would say: "Private privileges, ASES." This would mean he does not have a sea plane rating at the commercial level, so the requirement of 61.183(c)(1) would not be met.

He holds Commercial ASEL, but Private ASES.

 

[AC560]

so the requirement of 61.183(c)(1) would not be met.

61.183 reflects the requirement to get a flight instructor certificate, he has one already. Nothing shows a person needs commercial privileges to use an instructor certificate once you have it, merely a valid pilot certificate.

Not trying to be obtuse, I just really don't see where it is required.

 

[nosehair]

61.183 reflects the requirement to get a flight instructor certificate,

Or rating.
61.183 Eligibility requirements
To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:
(C)(1) Hold a Commercial with category and class - that would be ASES.

Ok, I hear you saying you are not trying to be "obtuse", and I know the reg is "obscure", but, common sense does come into play on some of these regs that are obscure. The judge will determine what is obscure and what is not.
Play your own game.

 

[AC560]

Play your own game.

Didn't say I advocated playing the game, common sense is dictated in all things. Doesn't mean that one shouldn't take the opportunity to learn more or understand things. The part you underlined makes sense to me.