CFI pass rate

[TreyBien]

Does a CFI pass rate ever come up during an airline interview? Hope not, mine sux... **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** students...

 

[NightFlight]

I think they have much more important issues they want to discuss during an interview.

 

[pianoman]

I don't think they have any way of checking anyway.

 

[FlyingFerris]

Why are you blaming your students? Usually a pupil is a reflection of the master. Sorry to cut your legs out from under you but I hate when CFI's blame check ride failures on their students. Of my 22 endorsments and 19 passes, I claim total credit on 2 of the failures. One I was new and failed to drill fundementals home. One was an unexpected question (but fair,) from a D.A. on a somewhat shakey oral. The third failed on there own accord, I mean who woulda thunk that you decend at the FAF? Sorry, I don't go for the blame the students bit.

 

[white E]

as with everything in this business, studs have to be responsible for their own training. Everytime you are going to a training event you are given a syllabus and you know what is going to be expected of you. The pts are published and accessible. It is the instructors responsibility that the student know what they are going to be graded on. If you expect me to spoon feed a student everything, I have bad news for you. I had twenty some students also - zero failures.

-W-

 

[FlyingFerris]

I'm not advocating spoon feeding, but you ultimately are responsible for determining whether or not this individual can do what they need to do on the check ride, as well as if your mom was sitting in a plane that student was flying. CFI's are the facilitators of the training so the student doesn't bear all the responsibility.

Also I hazard to guess that millitary training is slightly different from the civilian world. Since it seems you've flown quite a bit of military training hardware.

EDIT: Would your commander just shrug it off if you had a 10% pass rate, or would eyebrows be raised?

 

[PCL_128]

Dang students huh? You're the one that signed them off for the ride. If they weren't ready, you shouldn't have signed them off. Failure is the fault of the instructor, not the student. I signed off about 9 students for checkrides and all passed first try. However, if one of them had not passed, I would have viewed it as a failure on my part, not theirs. Stop blaming your students and try to figure out what you're doing wrong that's causing the high failure rate.

 

[indianboy7]

I actually got asked about my passrate when the interviewer saw that i had a gold seal CFI......he actually spent a few minutes asking me about it....how many student's had i signed up, what level were they, etc. etc. etc. .... but i doubt the airlines would care about your performance at teaching when they're hiring you to fly....

 

[yasir1212]

It came up during my interview at XJT. They spent a few minutes on it with my pass rate of about 80% (just casual talk, etc). Nothing overwhelming or anything.

 

[viper548]

I didn't get asked.

 

[Cosmo1999]

Does a CFI pass rate ever come up during an airline interview? Hope not, mine sux... **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** students...

The only thing to watch for is if the FAA starts investigating you. Other than that I have never heard of anyone being asked that. They care more about the checkrides you have passed or failed than what your students have done. It really doesnt matter whos fault it is. Bottom line is the person who failed the checkride has to face the music when they interview anywhere. I highly doubt many people try using it was my instructors fault as an excuse. I failed a checkride once and I didnt whine about how it was my instructors fault. I knew I screwed up, fixed the problem and moved on. If your student fail rate is high perhaps you should be asking why so many students are failing the checkrides however. I can see one or two failing due to a simple error or a case of the nerves. However if it is high enough for you to worry about it perhaps there is a problem that you need to address. Just dont let the FAA get a hold of you and try to pass a few in a row.

 

[white E]

I'm not advocating spoon feeding, but you ultimately are responsible for determining whether or not this individual can do what they need to do on the check ride, as well as if your mom was sitting in a plane that student was flying. CFI's are the facilitators of the training so the student doesn't bear all the responsibility.

Also I hazard to guess that millitary training is slightly different from the civilian world. Since it seems you've flown quite a bit of military training hardware.

EDIT: Would your commander just shrug it off if you had a 10% pass rate, or would eyebrows be raised?

There wouldn't ne a 10% pass rate, it wouldn't get that far. And yes I agree, I wouldn't send someone to a checkride, but they are responsible for their training. You can only lead them to water, it is up to them to drink it.

BTW - CFI time is all civilian

 

[plunger]

I agree that it's the intructors responsibility to ensure the applicant is able to pass and the instructor should take responsibility, but I don't feel it's always the instructors fault. I personally had two fail and both the applicants and the D.E. told me that it was all nerves. Both were more relaxed the second time and passed with flying colors. Unfortunatley, a fail is a fail. They don't discriminate between the applicant not having proper preparation, and the applicants nerves getting the best of them causing stupid mistakes they were taught not to make. I was told by a D.E. that the FAA doesn't normally come after CFI's unless there is a consistent failure rate in the same or similar areas on the practical. For example, having a bunch of students fail performing stalls, or students consistantly failing th oral because they can't discuss airspace.

 

[WhiteCloud]

I agree that it's the intructors responsibility to ensure the applicant is able to pass and the instructor should take responsibility, but I don't feel it's always the instructors fault. I personally had two fail and both the applicants and the D.E. told me that it was all nerves. Both were more relaxed the second time and passed with flying colors. Unfortunatley, a fail is a fail. They don't discriminate between the applicant not having proper preparation, and the applicants nerves getting the best of them causing stupid mistakes they were taught not to make. I was told by a D.E. that the FAA doesn't normally come after CFI's unless there is a consistent failure rate in the same or similar areas on the practical. For example, having a bunch of students fail performing stalls, or students consistantly failing th oral because they can't discuss airspace.

Good post. Most of us (DE's) don't like to fail people on checkrides, especially those that are well prepared. One thing that helps put pilot applicants at ease is the knowledge that simply exceeding a tolerance is not an instant bust. We can make reasonable allowances for weather conditions. It's all explained in the front section of the PTS that, unfortunately, only a few people read. Someone that knows the material and understands the maneuvers and has all the paperwork layed out so I don't have to search for it is well on their way to a satisfactory ride. These are all things that an instructor can help with and reflect on his/her competence. Ultimately, the student has to perform up to standards. A well prepared applicant that has all their stuff together in a neat stack AND knows the material will get appropriate consideration if an inadvertant error creeps in.

 

[RichardRambone]

How about interviews for pilot jobs? Do they ask you if you've ever failed a checkride and how much emphasis do they place on it? I failed my private b/c of a navigation error while dead reckoning and pilotage while on my X-C and on the oral of my CFI b/c I couldn't find the 141 inspections that are required in the a/c logbooks. Its stupid now that I use logbooks every day but then my instructor said I wouldnt need to know it for the checkride. My current job didnt ask me but I wonder if other interviewers will ask in the future.

 

[scotts]

If you are worried about being questioned about your pass rate, make sure you have a well thought-out response to the question. It shouldn't be too hard to explain (in as few words as possible) what happened. Always remember to be humble about it and not defensive. Take ownership of your past performance and don't make excuses.

One thing to keep in mind is that your interviewer will be a line pilot and the questions you get will vary with each individual interviewer. Some ex-cfi's may pay particular attention to (and have knowledge of) your career as a CFI. That will play a part in the area's that they choose to question you about.

Bottom line: it's a crap-shoot as to whether or not you will be questioned about your pass rate. Just be prepared for it.

FWIW...

 

[WhiteCloud]

How about interviews for pilot jobs? Do they ask you if you've ever failed a checkride and how much emphasis do they place on it? .

Sure...it's a legitimate question. Usually they just want to see how you respond to a potentially difficult or embarrasing question and are not trying to determine if you a perfect pilot. As long as you know why you busted and fixed the problem and don't make up a bunch of excuses you'll be find. Also...even if the DE was a jerk and you were busted unfairy don't say it at the interview. Take responsibility for your performance.

 

[RichardRambone]

The DE was a jerk but I try hard not to throw that fact in there when I talk about it. He was rushing me the whole time and didnt give me much of a chance to correct my error. He asked me if we were over the airport I had planned on flying over and I said yes. It had the same number of runways and same runway directions and was very close to the one I was actually supposed to be over. Being that its my first checkride he said "Are you sure?'' at which point I should've cross checked my VORs or what not but instead gave an unsure and nonchalant "Yes" and he failed me.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Hate to say it but if you ended up at the wrong airport you earned the pink slip from the DE. Plus he gave you a chance to redeem yourself when he asked if you were sure which would have been the perfect opportunity to double check your navigation.

 

[RichardRambone]

Hate to say it but if you ended up at the wrong airport you earned the pink slip from the DE. Plus he gave you a chance to redeem yourself when he asked if you were sure which would have been the perfect opportunity to double check your navigation.

I cant say I disagree with that. I just wasnt sure of myself and should've got aggressive and solved the problem rather than just give a Yes to whatever he said. In retrospect, coulda woulda shoulda live and learn.