CFI or C-550?

[Rfgrabb]

sum-up

So, if I got this right, according to 61.55 you can serve as second-in-command of an aircraft that requires more than one crewmember if the following stipulations are met: appropriate certicates and ratings are held, and the 61.55 checkout is completed. So, if the C-550 requries two pilots the right seater could log SIC time even if the PIC does not hold an ATP or MEI. Still, my biggest question is what would a regional or major think of this time?

I have checked with Flight Safety and Simuflight and they have programs designed specifically for this 61.55 "checkout." While they are cheap in comparison to a type rating at around $8,000 compared to $14,000, assuming I can somehow get this corporation to pay for this school is SIC C-550 time valuable?

 

[FlyinBrian]

I think the short answer is:
Not as vaulable as PIC time, especially if it's in a multi.

Whether or not it is true, I would likely view the SIC time in your book as "held the yoke while the captain sipped his coffee" time. Not bad experience, but not the same being in command of your ship and your student, having to make decisions and save your butt.

 

[flydog]

Part 135 requires and ATP for operating a Turbojet aircraft so its obviously Part 91

That being the case if the PIC has single pilot authorization then an SIC is not a required crewmember and therefore the time cannot be logged.

If it was under 135 they would need authorization under their Op Specs of use of autopliot in lieu of SIC. If they dont an SIC is required. In that case the SIC needs a 135.297 and 61.55 check usually from SimuFlite or Flight Safety to sit in the right seat

Most pilots I have met that are typed in the Citation do not have single pilot authorization on their type and there are plenty of 135 and 91 operators flying with 2 crewmembers. At our company one of the Citation FOs has less than 300 hrs and he is a required crewmember under Part 135 and 91 since there is no single pilot authorization.

I disagree with the asessment that SIC time is meaningless. A few hundred hours in the right seat of a jet is great experience and will likely help you get in the door of a 135 Jet operator. However I do agree that most promises from flight departments arent worth the air they float on and if I had to choose between an occasional ride in a Citation and flight instructing job where I could log 1000 hrs a year I would stick with flight instructing.

 

[lancair1]

Rfgrabb,

The following links provide definitive answers to most questions regarding the logging of flight time. There are so many complexities and differences of opinion, I've found these references to save quite alot of time.

http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/amb/pic-time.txt

http://www.awp.faa.gov/fsdo/las_vegas/art_pilot.htm

http://www.propilot.com/doc/logging2.html

Good luck!

If you turn down the job or know of another, I would be grateful if you would let me know.

 

[RJones]

I know of no 135 operator who operates a CE500 series jet single pilot...the FAA won't let them.

 

[English]

RJones,

Could be, but there are plenty of operators that run CE525s single pilot part 135. I don't know about the 500 series.

 

[Buschpilot]

IMHO, I'd rather have the PIC time than the SIC jet time. I've met more people than I can count in the last nine months that are really not very happy, due to their lack of PIC time. They're getting laid off and can't find a good job because of it!

Now, on the other hand, if you can mix the time up, some SIC jet time is never a bad thing, and it could help down the road. You just don't want to be the guy who has 1500 hours of SIC time and 300 PIC. Plus, you may never upgrade with such low time. And who knows, maybe the jet only flies 30 hours a month.

 

[501261]

There was a thread about this on the Corporate Forum about a month ago. Let me clear this stuff up about the Citation, because there seems to be a lot of confusion about it.

1. A Citation II (C550) is a TWO pilot airplane. An approprialtly rated SIC (65.55 checkout) can log all the time he is on that airplane as SIC. He can log this time whether it be flown under 91, 135, or 121 (obviously needs 135, or 121 checkrides to fly it under 135, 121). Also there are no Citations being flown under 121 for those nitpicks, just used as an example

2. The fact that the PIC has a single pilot waiver, makes no difference, because a C550 is TYPE certified as TWO PILOTS. The PIC is simply not using his waiver.

3. You can not log PIC time in a Citation unless you have a type rating (CE500), this is not a King Air (type rating not required) and sole manipulator does not work!

4. A C501 or C551 Citation (Citation ISP or IISP) is different and this is what confuses most of the people on the board. Since the airplane TYPE certificate states two pilots OR 1 pilot.

5. You do not need to go to FS or Simuflite to get a 61.55 checkout, any PIC can give a 61.55 checkout. You just need to go out with no passengers and daytime and to the manuevers required by 61.55. The PIC does not need an ATP or MEI to give this "checkout", and you can log all of this time as SIC according to 61.55F.

6. There are some Citations out there (I personaly know of a C560, and a C525) being operated Single Pilot and 135. While this is not common, since the hurdles are large (insurance and an understanding FSDO), it is possible.

7. My copilots have had no problem getting hired on by the regionals with SIC jet time and little PIC time (2 Skywest, 1 Coex). MAJORs are the ones that want the PIC turbine time.

8. If you read the board long enough, when a thread like this comes up, most people will say that they're experience (college, 141 school, fractional, regional) is the best way to go. I disagree with all of them, I believe what YOU make out of it is the key here. Flying as an SIC is what you make out of it. You CAN learn a whole lot by constantly flying with EFIS, TCAS, EGPWS, INS's, SID's, STAR's, shooting real approaches to airports you have never been to, basically just getting to know how the system works. However, if all you get out of it is learning how to put coffee and ice on the airplane, that 1000 hours SIC time is as worthless as the 1000 hour PIC that has never left the local training environment.

Congradulations on the offers and good luck!