CFI - Letter of Discontinuance (sp?)

[AZaviator]

By the way, why the hell does the FAA require the oral portion of the test be done first!

On my CFI checkride, I actually did my flight first, then did my oral afterward. The examiner wanted to get the flight overwith before it got too hot. This was out in San Bernardino, CA. Anyone else ever done the flight first?

 

[Flip]

I also had a letter of discontinuance issued on my CFI initial due to weather. The examiner explained that it was in case I decided to take the flight portion of the test with another examiner, (the letter explains what had already being done). Needless to say, I went back to the original guy.....didn't want the 4 hour oral to go to waste!!!!

 

[pipers]

When I did my CFI, the examiner told me that if I made it through the oral then I was almost pretty much guarenteed to pass the entire test. I guess in his opionion, the oral is the toughest part. Needless to say, I was quite relieved when he told me to meet him at the plane. Good luck with your flight.

 

[bobbysamd]

Re: Add a rating?

You may only renew by passing a practical test for a rating already on your certificate.

§ 61.199 Expired flight instructor certificates and ratings.

(a) Flight instructor certificates. The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate may exchange that certificate for a new certificate with the same ratings by passing a practical test as prescribed in § 61.183(h) of this part for one of the ratings listed on the expired flight instructor certificate.

Let's say you are a Commercial glider pilot as well as an airplane pilot. You go for glider instructor. I always understood that doing something like that renews all your instructor ratings.

For surplus1: There are indeed examiners who give eight-hour orals for intial CFI applicants. The one I know in Scottsdale has been doing it for years and is revered in the local aviation community. I agree with you. I gave plenty of orals as a stage check pilot, and I could tell within the first few minutes if the examinee knew the material and was prepared.

 

[surplus1]

Re: Re: Add a rating?

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For surplus1: There are indeed examiners who give eight-hour orals for intial CFI applicants. The one I know in Scottsdale has been doing it for years and is revered in the local aviation community. I agree with you. I gave plenty of orals as a stage check pilot, and I could tell within the first few minutes if the examinee knew the material and was prepared.

Bobby,

I don't doubt at all that it is happening. I still think it's absurd. Since I won't be in Scottsdale anytime soon (at least not to take an oral) I can avoid a collision with the individual. If I were there as an instructor, I would simply find another examiner and would not use that person. I'll bet if he/she had no one to abuse for awhile the eight hour orals would go away.

There's a lot of "revereing" in the industry that's less than justified. I have found that many FSDO types are "revered" simply because they wear that badge, which I see as misplaced reverence. Hopefully the person you mention has a lot more to offer than 8-hour orals that could justify the reverence while tolerating the absurdity.

 

[tdvalve]

As one who used to conduct a lot of CFI checkrides, maybe I can explain why some orals take so long. Number 1, the CFI is the most important certificate issued by the FAA. A marginal CFI can create a chain of circumstances that results in negative effects for decades. Most examiners and inspectors will go to great lengths to ensure the applicant knows what he or she is doing. Number 2, the examiner must ask questions from each area of the PTS. You're not allowed to ask a few questions in a couple of areas and assume knowledge there will transfer to all other areas. You'd be amazed to hear the myths and misconceptions that some otherwise knowledgable applicants have accumulated. Number 3, and possibly the most pertinent, most examiners don't want to fail applicants. Therefore, when a weak applicant shows up, the oral exam becomes a teaching session that lasts until the examiner is comfortable with the applicant's knowledge level. Sure, this isn't the way it's supposed to work and the FAA seriously frowns on this. But, some examiners will routinely revert to being a teacher in order to avoid issuing a pink slip. I doubt that a prepared applicant will ever receive an 8 hour oral.

 

[surplus1]

Number 3, and possibly the most pertinent, most examiners don't want to fail applicants. Therefore, when a weak applicant shows up, the oral exam becomes a teaching session that lasts until the examiner is comfortable with the applicant's knowledge level. Sure, this isn't the way it's supposed to work and the FAA seriously frowns on this. But, some examiners will routinely revert to being a teacher in order to avoid issuing a pink slip. I doubt that a prepared applicant will ever receive an 8 hour oral.

That I can understand fully. I would not call what you describe an
"eight-hour oral". To me, that sounds like a two hour oral plus a six hour period of instruction. Generous on the part of the examiner and worthy of praise.

I have to wonder however, how does it reflect on the recommending instructor when the applicant needs six hours of instruction to get past a two hour oral? Why would instructors recommend applicants that are not prepared?

IMHO the whole system is upside down. We in fact have the most inexperienced people in the field "teaching" that which they barely know themselves. I know this is controlled by economics in that instructors aren't paid enough, in most cases, to attract experienced pilots to the field. Apparently it works, but it sure is different from other fields.

There's an old canard in this area that goes something like this: "Those who can do. Those who can't, teach and those who can't teach, teach teachers." I think than came from Dr. Milton Horowitz, but not sure. The sad part is that it's true in very many cases.

 

[UPS Capt]

Bluto

You're right on with the renewal process except for one thing. You cannot renew a CFI by adding a new instructor rating. You may only renew by passing a practical test for a rating already on your certificate.

Sure you can.

My CFI had expired years ago. I went to a local DPE and he gave me a MEI ride as an add-on which renewed all my previous instructor ratings.

 

[Bluto]

Read part 61. You cannot renew that way. Either the DPE was wrong, or the reg is printed incorrectly. Part 61 is very clear on this. It may have been this way in the past, however, you cannot renew this way anymore. How else can you interpret 61.199?

 

[gump88]

Read part 61. You cannot renew that way. Either the DPE was wrong, or the reg is printed incorrectly. Part 61 is very clear on this. It may have been this way in the past, however, you cannot renew this way anymore. How else can you interpret 61.199?

I renewed last year by getting the MEI added!! My DPE said it is done all the time.

To the original poster of this thread: You should have gotten a pink slip. The few DPEs that I know would have stopped the ride the second you started taxiing with thunderstorms approaching the field. It's much better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground!

gump