cessna 206 IO-540 problems

[chrisrj83]

I work for a small charter airline, we fly cessna 206's and 172's. Anyways, the 2000 206 with the IO-540 had the engine crap out on us. On it's last 100 hr inspection there were metal shavings in the oil. Lycoming told us that the engine was out of warente and there was nothing the could do about it. I know that there has been some AD's and other problems with the 540's lately. My question is has anyone else run into this problem, and how was it solved?

 

[avbug]

Just to make sure we're clear...you found metal shavings, and then continued to operate the airplane right up to an engine failure, after being told by Lyc that the warranty wouldn't be honored?

 

[chrisrj83]

no, we stopped operating the airplane took the engine out to have it overhauled. I was just wondering if anyone else has had this problem because if enough people go to lycoming with the same problem they might have to do something about it.

 

[avbug]

Still not clear. You wonder if any other Lycoming O-540 has made metal?

How does finding metal suggest the engine "crapped out?"

 

[chrisrj83]

because we were told it was no longer safe to fly, and the engine was taken out..... If we continued to fly it the engine would not have lasted much longer. I'm not sure what else you need to know??

 

[avbug]

"Crapped out" infers that the engine failed in some way. Apparently it was making metal. This could have been a number of things, from a failing oil pump to bearings. The nature of the metal, how it was discovered, the concentraton, etc, hasn't been divulged. Thus far, asking if other lycoming engines have made metal is a little like asking if any other Fords have ever been in a car accident.

If the warranty was no longer in effect, it was no longer in effect.

Do you use regular, consistant spectrometric oil analysis?

 

[chrisrj83]

So far what I have heard the main bearings failed along with something happening with the lifters.

 

[avbug]

Okay...so far the right question to ask is w(h)eather or not other lyc 540 series engines have failed for the same reason...but you don't know the reason, which makes the question very difficult to address.

Was additive LW-16702 used in the oil? Were all SB's and AD's complied with? What type metal was found? Was cold weather operation involved? Did oil loss occur? Are you talking bearing failure as in starved bearing, or spun bearing? Was the proper oil used? How frequent were oil changes? How was the engine being operated? How much time was on the engine, and under what conditions? Which bearing? How much material? How was it discovered? Did it have brass piston plugs? How often was the aircraft operated?

Sounds like you have it in the shop, and will have your answers. It also sounds like you're trying to find a way to get Lycoming to pay for the damages. Why not wait until you have something solid to go by...like knowing the cause and the result, before attempting to pigeon hole someone's pocket for the repairs?

 

[f9driver]

Avbug, why are you so totally arrogant. Did you fail in your calling to become a lawyer and prosecutor? ggg.

 

[chrisrj83]

Avbug, why are you so totally arrogant. Did you fail in your calling to become a lawyer and prosecutor? ggg.

Thank you, I'm just trying to find out if anyone else has had similar problems, not looking for the third degree.

 

[USMCmech]

I'm just trying to find out if anyone else has had similar problems,

Yes.

IO-540s are no different than any other engine. Ocasionally something breaks and metal starts rubbing on metal. There are literally thousands of possible reasons.

Any time visible metal shows up in the engine oil an overhaul is required in the imeadte future. Thank your lucky stars that your employer has the integrity to fix it at the fist sign of trouble, rather than waiting for it to actually break.


RE: Lycomings waranty.

Take the waranty and use it to start a fire in your den, that about all they are good for. Realisticly all they cover is catstrophic failure in the first few hours. Otherwise "That is normal wear and tear and not covered"

Contential is no better.

 

[NoPax]

The company I work for operate Twin Commanders with IO-540 A1E5/B1E5 series engines, and 2003/04 was pretty tough on the engines.

We operate throughout the Midwest and have bases in Grand Rapids, MI, and Yipsilanti, MI, St Paul MN - those being consistantly the coldest.

Some of our failures were due to oil starvation to the main bearing. They are equipped with high torque, lightweight starters, which can start an engine easily between 20ºF-30ºF, and below 20ºF. So the blame was placed on the inexperience/stupidity of the pilots starting a cold, non-lubricated engine.

We have in our ops manual, recommendations (that weren't followed) on cold weather operation - basically don't start them until they have been warmed to over 30ºF, and put the aircraft in a hangar/heated hangar if available when the outside temps drop to below 30ºF. This restriction has been changed a little since we had a much better year in 2004/05.

The oil we were using was also revised from an Aeroshell brand to Phillips X/C 20w 50. When the Phillips X/C isn't available, we can use an Aeroshell, but we have to tell MX, so they can flush the engine at next inspection, or within 10 hours (I think) - due to oil incompatibility - something I wasn't aware of until coming here.

Last time I talked to my bosses about it, the cold weather ops reverted back to 'under 20ºF', due to 'most of the bad bearings' being found and corrected - so it is possible that a bad part was to blame.

Hope this adds some insight.

 

[avbug]

You can call it arrogance all you want; you came here ignorantly looking for answers, not knowing even the basics about your own problem, and failed to answer many of the preliminary questions. "They" said, "they" found...you have second hand information without specifics, and are looking for blame and other causes with which to pin blame...ostensibly to make a rejected warranty stick.

Don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

There's as even a chance as any that poor operating practice starved the bearing if indeed that's what happened...but you probably don't want to hear that either.

 

[chrisrj83]

Thanks a$$ hole, I did some reasearch elsewhere and found out that there is a SAIB on the main bearings on the IO-540 for 2000 and newer engines. oil changes were every 35 hours, and we not hard on our equiptment. And as far as the warranty, I just work at the place and it's not my airplane or my money, but my boss is one of the nicest people I know, so I thought I'd try to do some reasearch on if there had been other incidents like ours. So thanks for jumping to conclusions and making yourself look like an ass. thats all I have to say about that.

 

[avbug]

Research? You thought you'd research it? You don't even know what happened...not knowing what happened, how would you know if identical problems existed with which to make the comparison? Don't bother answering that. You wouldn't. If you were truly researching it, you'd do enough research to find out about your own engine, and what happened, but you've posted in ignorance there, turning instead to the internet. Take no thought but to ask someone else...before you have any sure knowledge of your own footing. Brilliant. And you have the gall to call others in error. Crikey.

Still unable to answer questions regarding your own engine, are you?

 

[skydivinguy]

jerk!

Avbug, why are you so totally arrogant. Did you fail in your calling to become a lawyer and prosecutor? ggg.

Well, you got there before me! I was going to tell the bug he missed his calling too. Maybe a reporter or detective. Guess he will have to settle for turd!

 

[paulsalem]

Avbug, why are you so totally arrogant. Did you fail in your calling to become a lawyer and prosecutor? ggg.

F9driver: would GGG be Quagmire? Gigity Gigity Gigity?

 

[chrisrj83]

did you not raed anything in my last post?????? You must be one of those people that has no life and can't keep a job because no one likes you, so you sit on the computer ALL DAY to criticise everyone that says anything on here. And to some people I might no have given enough information about the problem, but as I said before there was a prob with the wrong main bearings being put into the newer 540s and delamination occuring, and there have been six accidents due to the same problem, and many other engines have been overhauled due to the same problem. But thanks for your help.

 

[avbug]

but as I said before there was a prob with the wrong main bearings being put into the newer 540s and delamination occuring, and there have been six accidents due to the same problem,

If you're read and answered the questions, you were asked about AD's, SBs, and SI's that were complied with...had you bothered to READ and answer the questions, you might have had a more complete reply.

Delaminated bearings? You install a lot of laminated bearings, do you?

 

[chignutsak]

No stake in this argument whatsoever. Just had to say that you are an effing arrogant pr1k, Mr. Avbug.