Central Air Southwest & Key Lime Air...any info?

[Sled driver]

If anyone has flown for Central Air Southwest or Key Lime Air and can give me some feedback I would appreciate it. How is there second in command program? Once on line how did you like the company. Thanks.

 

[hydroflyer]

You'll probably find a good amount of info on this site by just searching the names of the two companies. If your profile is correct, then you don't even need to think about the SIC programs. From what I understand, those are for people to pay to sit in the right seat who do not meet the 135 PIC time requirements. I saw your other post asking about Ameriflight, and if I had to suggest one of the 3 companies to you that fit what you've asked, Ameriflight would be the way to go.

 

[mcjohn]

Gotta quote de727ups here:

It's wrong for someone to PFJ. It's bad for the industry. How does paying for a job help us better this mess of an industry we are in? There are timebuilding programs where you aren't paying to rent a seat as a required crewmember like Gulfstream (or Key Lime Air) does. That would serve your purpose without encouraging PFJ.

 

[de727ups]

McJohn. Please don't quote me anymore. KeyLime and Gulfstream are two different animals.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. KeyLime, and Amflight (through EagleJet), offer timebuilding programs. You sit in the right seat, build time, and pay for it. That right seat in NOT a required crewmember seat and the plane can go without you. The value of this time varies depending on who you are talking to and your specific situation. I personally have no problem with it as you aren't a required crewmember. A lot of people DO have problems with it but as I see it, unless someone is mandated to be in that seat, then it's no big deal. If there is a requirement that a body be in that seat, then a person shouldn't pay for it and an airline shouldn't rent that seat out like Gulfstream does.

Gulfstream is a totally different from Amflight. This is an airline that uses copilots as a revenue source. You are paying to do the job of a required crewmember and the plane can't leave without you and your money. This is bad for the industry and should not be tolerated. The vast majority of professional pilots, if you explain what Gulfstream is and stands for, are dead seat against it.

 

[mcjohn]

My bad, won't happen again. I should of know better (BTW I added the Key Lime aspect of that post). If the right seat isn't a required position then I could care less. I still think it's a waste of money. They should let folks ride those seats for free on a lottery basis or something.

 

[de727ups]

At Amflight, when they have an Eaglejet guy in the right seat, the pilots get like a $5/hr or $7/hr override. Plus, they make the dude load the freight. Plus, he gets left behind if they need to bump him for freight. How much does Amflight get for participating in the scheme? I have no idea.

Any Amflight guys out there know?

 

[User546]

Is Central Air Southwest's SIC program a pay to play program? I've always been under the impression that it was not.

 

[Tug Driver]

Central Air charges $50/hr to sit in the sic seat on the commander. If I could do it again, I would go to Airnow or Ameriflight.

 

[Big Duke Six]

Sled, I agree - with your hours you should be able to get hired somewhere, unless there is some other requirement you don't meet. I hear Ameriflight is a good outfit.

I flew for Key Lime (Metros) for 2.5 years. I'm probably a sicko but I had a great time there and got some AWESOME experience. Things have improved there since I left too - it used to be six days a week, now I hear it's only four. I highly recommend single-pilot freight as a timebuilder. Your time will be well-respected by those in the know.

I was fortunate and went straight to the Metro. Not sure if that can stil be done but it was nice. At either AF or KL, turbine time is what you need to be looking for - the sooner the better!

I think I'm permanently scarred though. It's been about 2.5 years since I left there and I still rarely sleep past 5 am, but I'm getting better.

 

[mcjohn]

Airnow does this as well?

 

[pipe]

I flew for Central Air once upon a time. Right seat filled predominently with lazy, stinky French guys. This was particularly troublesome as the Twin Commander has a trim wheel on the overhead panel. I'd recommend that you bring deodorant and breath mints if you work with them (I am actually not kidding about this). You are expected to be a CFI with these guys, while trying to keep a tight schedule. Also, I recall many times where I was forced to choose between cargo and the weight of the seat meat in the right seat. Each and every time resulted in veiled threats from the company. Do you leave the poor bastard who's paying for SIC time and hose him (and also get on the wrong side of the company), or do you leave paid freight (and get on the wrong side of the company), or do you takeoff overweight (and get on the wrong side of the FAA), or do you fudge the paperwork, make everyone happy and hang your own A$$ on the line??? This was a nightly dilemma that I held the line on and was not popular for.

The owner is an interesting cat. All I can say is that you should do a google search for lawsuits regarding Central Air Southwest - makes for interesting reading. I had an FAA inspector look at my logbook once and when he saw all of that AC-500 time he asked me if I had worked there. When I told him yes he commented that I was lucky to have my tickets - and for that matter my life! True story!!!

I will say this: the time was good, the experience was good, and the only way to make it out of there with your tickets and your health is to be strong willed and uncompromising about the FAR's and the maintenance of the aircraft. And when you do stand toe to toe with "the man", make sure you know what you're talking about and have all of your ducks in a row so to speak (see earlier lawsuit referencs).

PIPE

 

[mcjohn]

Like I said.......I don't think it's worth it to buy time like that and now I don't think it's worth it to work for someone who lets people buy time like that. Especially a bunch of stinky foriegners. Damm I can't spell tonight!

I'm not quoting anyone.....Screw those places! They should focus on making money with cargo. Not someone they probably should hire!!??

 

[Sled driver]

Thanks guys

Thanks for the info. I have been trying to reply but the website was not letting me respond. Hopefully this one will go through. I have 1800 + hours but only 12 hours of twin time so that is why I am looking into the second in command program. I have been flying single engine Part 135. Prior to that... part time jump pilot and part time CFI.

I don't really want to pay for training either but this is the cheapest way to do it for me.

1) CFIing in a twin would cost more money since I would have to get more ratings and take a pay cut. Plus it would take a long time.

2) Flying for a company that upgrades with a twin rating only (Ram Air, Air Express, etc.) would work but they are on the East coast or in the Midwest and I have kids, wife, house, etc on the West Coast. The wife may be for sale but that would be later. I also would like to get on a company that offers opportunity to grow beyond a piston twin. Empire or Mountain Air Cargo might be an option but I am leary of being stuck in a single engine for a long time. If anyone has info on upgrades in these companies let me know.

3) Splitting time is an option (Ari Ben Aviator) but that is still more expensive then the second in command program plus half of it is as a safety pilot.

Anyways, that is why I am looking at the SIC programs. It has to be the right company for the right reasons. No stealing pilot jobs, getting hosed, etc. I was laughing pretty hard about the French time builders. I have been to a couple of 3rd world countries in my life time and I can say I have never smelled something quite as bad as a European who is afraid of a bath and a stick of deodrant. Speaking of which...Central Air is looking for Commnder pilots on 350.com.

What kind of pay does Key Lime Air offer in their turbines? At this point and time I think Ameriflight may have the most to offer but I am all ears to any other thoughts.

 

[hydroflyer]

If the only time you are short on is multi, but meet all the 135 IFR PIC requirements (500 point-to-point XC, 100 night, 75 instrument), then fill out an application, especially with Ameriflight. You never know, some people get hired on with very low multi at places, and maybe all they will ask to see is some recency of multi experience, which you could get by renting a twin for less money than an SIC program. You won't know unless you throw out an app and then follow up with the company. The fact you have some other 135 experience should be a help to you. When you do get the interview, make sure to get some simulator time in the same type sim you will see on the interview. Good luck.

 

[Texanflyboy]

Casw

I fly for Central Air. They're not bad right now. I'm based in Grand Rapids, Love the experience. The pay is 1,700 for probation the first 4 months and then goes up after that. They do require you to agree to six months. The others are right about the PFT program.....you're a flight instructor when they go w/ you. Most can't fly for crap, they get their 600 hours and scare more Captains at the airlines. Last time I asked our SIC what he was paying (and laughing at him) he said $35/hr with a $2,500 training fee.

As far as mx goes...I have no complaints, and then again i'm based at GRR where we have Rapid Air fix all our squawks. You write it up....it gets fixed! I really think that the best base is GRR, planes get fixed and you don't have to see the boss. At MKC you see the bosses everyday. I talk to the office once a week just to get next weeks schedule. I'm not sure about other bases.

So far my experience has been good. As long as you work with them they'll work with you. That's just my experience. When I go back for recurrent in June i'll take my ATP checkride at the companies expense.

 

[Sled driver]

Thanks

Thanks for all of the info guys. It helps out. I'll keep investigating and do a "search" on the previously posted questions/comments about the various companies I am considering. I should have done that earlier but I am still going through Initial Operating Experience (IOE) with this web site and didn't even notice the "search" section.