CE-500 type at www.flightcrewsystems.com

[snoopy_1]

My GI Bill expires next month and I'm considering getting another type before it does, any info on this school or any other VA approved type rating schools would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

 

[ClassG]

The type program at FCS in Carlsbad is pretty quick and painless. You'd be surprised at how much info they can load into you in the 3-4 day ground school. Flight training and checkride will take another day and you'll probably not log more than 4 hours total with 2 being your PIC type ride.

Pretty easy for anyone who has ever had airline type-specific training (systems, sims or flight, oral and checkride) and came through it OK. The operation is small, so you get lots of personal attention. The info and read/study materials are all excellent. Very good instructors and the owner is easy to deal with.

I'd do it again, especially if someone else was paying for it again. However, Southwest, Frontier, Airtran are all in hiring mode (or soon), so you might be better off with a 737 type, if it's available to you.

(Oh, forget it, I see you're already typed.)

Hope this helps.

 

[Maria]

See and Avoid

If you have a previous type, thousands of hours, don't mind violating regs left and right, and can put up with the checkride from hell, go there. Otherwise spend your G.I. Bill elsewhere. FCS might have been a good school in the past, t'ain't now.

 

[ClassG]

Hey Maria:

We could use some details 'bout that which you speak?

You can PM me if you don't want to post here. I'm just wondering if I overlooked something and allowed myself a potential violation during the training there. Not trying to attack you, but your comments could use some substantiation.

ClassG

 

[bobbysamd]

Flight Crew Systems

I obtained my Citation type there in May, 1990 when it was known as Professional Airline Systems and was run by Mike Pappas. I enjoyed the experience tremendously. Mike promised a first-class course and he delivered.

After you put down your deposit you will be mailed a Citation manual. Read it before you go. Also, be sure that your instrument skills are honed. The course consisted of something like 3 1/2 days of ground school, an evening of AST-300 sim, and flight and checkride the next day. Mike also spent time with our class discussing interviewing and resumes. He provided great advice. On Friday, I went back to Mike and he gave me my single-engine ATP practical. I understand that Mike still gives the Citation practicals.

I have heard from a person here who has taken the course, and it sounds as if nothing much has changed since I was there. Accordingly, I recommend Fight Crew Systems highly.

Hope that helps some more.

 

[English]

bobbysamd,

You're getting us all confused! There are two different type rating companies in Carlsbad - Pacific Airline Systems (run by Mike Pappas, CE525 types) and Flight Crew Systems (CE500/CE550 types) They are closely related but different just the same.

www.flightcrewsystems.com
www.pacificairlinesystems.com

 

[bobbysamd]

Pacific Airline Systems v. Flight Crew Systems

There are two different type rating companies in Carlsbad - Pacific Airline Systems (run by Mike Pappas, CE525 types) and Flight Crew Systems (CE500/CE550 types) They are closely related but different just the same.

www.flightcrewsystems.com
www.pacificairlinesystems.com

This must be a recent development. Mike must have (re)started his company. I had searched for him some time back as "Professional Airline Systems," which led me to "Flight Crew Systems." At that time, the website discussed how Mike had founded the company.

I didn't realize that things had changed. Mike's "PAS" logo is exactly the same as when he was "Professional Airline Systems" several years ago. Some of the bio information that was on the Flight Crew Systems site is on his site.

Nevertheless, in any incarnation, you won't go wrong with Mike Pappas.

 

[ClassG]

Actually, English, Professional Airline Systems was sold by Mike Pappas and eventually became Flight Crew Systems which is now owner and operated by Stuart Illian. Mike still conducts some of the ground school, on occasion with Roger Nutter (a college Aviation professor and corporate pilot) as the primary instructor. Also, Nutter does the flight training and Pappas (generally) oversees the type ride with Nutter acting as the SIC for the checkride.

Pappas also owns and operates that other school for the CE525 types, so they are NOT the same, but overlap in some ways. When you contract with Flight Crew Systems for a CE525 type rating, it seems they sub it out to the other company (as I understand it).

Now, as I mentioned, I was highly satisfied in my experience there, as well as the results. HOWEVER, one of the previous posters (MARIA) had an objectionable experience which, due to possible legal proceedings, neither I or he will post the details of here. (I'm not informed enough nor qualified to give any, anyway.) Suffice it to say, his reasons came across as sound, in my opinion, and possibly there are some concerns about the operations at FCS.


I realize this doen't help much. Maria's negative maybe cancels my positive. But as Maria stated to me - (obviously, something like) 80% have a good experience (with FCS).

Good Luck.

ClassG

 

[scubabri]

A couple flight instructors from my school just went and got the type and the ATP ride, they both said that the experience was positive.

My question is, how usefull can it be for a first type unless you are going right into a job. I think I would forget all the stuff and the type would be worthless.

Besides, with my low time.. I couldn't pay someone to let me fly... or maybe I could

b

 

[wingnutt]

its been awhile since i talked to em, but as i recall the "GI Bill" price minus what the GI Bill pays is about the same amount out of pocket for an average joe gaining you a measley 3 more hours of flight time.

in the grand scheme of things, does 3 more hours really matter when they charge the gov't twice as much for the same rating?

 

[snoopy_1]

Thanks for the help, I had a tough time getting 3 grand from the WIA to cover what my GI Bill wouldn't for the 737 type, looks like I'm going to have to see if I can get another 3 grand for this one.

 

[BigDave]

As a fellow vet that has gone through Flight Crew Systems in CRQ, I have nothing bad to say about them. The training was good and coming from 121 environment, the training was no problem. I guess I would best described as a “gentlemen’s” course, but nothing is wrong with that. Stuart does a very good job and the instructors were great.

Bottom line, do it. Also Carlsbad is a great place to be.

 

[snoopy_1]

I'm gonna give them a call this morning and see if they can get me in a class before my GI Bill times out next month, Carlsbad sounds a whole lot better than Detroit.

Thanks

 

[bobbysamd]

Carlsbad eats

Be sure to try a restaurant called "When In Rome." As you may have guessed, it is Italian, and very good.

 

[Cmdr Taggart]

Got to jump in on this as a Carlsbad local the BEST Italian resturante in town is Trattoria I Trulli, it is in Encinitas off Coast Hyw. The best Mexican is Los Ollas of Coast. Have fun.

 

[CFINY]

How about $$$ ?

Hi all,

I was just wondering, how much do they charge for CE-500 TYPE?

Thx.

 

[ClassG]

I think they said the prices were going up a littl to cover the renewal increase in insurance for the aircraft, but the cost for the basic program (approved by MO State's WIA program) was right at $5500.

I know the other programs (Expanded, Part 141, Combined 500/525 courses) all increase in cost from there. The combined course is about $11000.

Try this link:

http://mo.works.state.mo.us/lmi/owa/dese.site?x_mts=632

It may help you, but I've been screwing up the links every time lately.

 

[wingnutt]

It may help you, but I've been screwing up the links every time lately.

heck no, you got it right that time...good link!

i was just gonna suggest that someone call em and post all the prices just for general purposes. according to the link...

-short course for the 500= $5,500
-VA course for the 500= $11,700

VA pays 60% (or $7,020) leaves out of pocket at $4,680. so i guess VA actually does save almost a grand.

then theres the short course for the 500 and 525 combined for the same 11,700, but dosent look like its VA approved