Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Cathay vs. 121 PIC

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

i'mbatman

Thunderbiiiiiiiiiiiiiiird
Joined
Apr 7, 2002
Posts
318
I've been hired at CX as a DEFO and have been offered a class date. I would be based at home flying the -400. When class starts I will have roughly 800TPIC.

I declined the class b/c I want a bit more time to get at least 1000TPIC before I go.

Good move or bad move? All thoughts and opinions are welcome.
 
I've been hired at CX as a DEFO and have been offered a class date. I would be based at home flying the -400. When class starts I will have roughly 800TPIC.

I declined the class b/c I want a bit more time to get at least 1000TPIC before I go.

Good move or bad move? All thoughts and opinions are welcome.

Got a friend of mine who's been their for almost a couple of years-he loves it. Personally I think you goofed there mate. Hopefully your current plan will work out for you.
 
Bad move me thinks.

However, you gotta do what you are comfortable with, so no point in beating yourself over your choice.
 
Pretty interesting.....my thought process was that 1000TPIC is the golden number. Just an insurance policy you know if things were not all they seemed at CX. Thanks for the opinions....anyone else?

Oh yeah.....the next class would prob be 6-8 weeks after the first one offered.
 
Cathay is without question the #1 pax airline in the world. UPS has been hiring a lot of those guys. I agree with your plan. Just get that 1000 and then enjoy the CX experience.
 
Well if you're going to get another class offer with Cathay in a few weeks, sounds like a great move to me...
 
You really think you can turn down CX and get another offer later???? I think your one chance to work there has come and gone.... Since when did CX start home basing????

200 hours would not take very long to get. I dont think that the time from job offer to class is that fast at CX. Surely you could get 200 more hours by then....Something here doesnt make sense.....
 
I think he probably lives in New York or San Fran.
 
Your original statement doesn't make sense to us. When you say you "declined the offer", we think you turned them down completely.

So, did you turn them down, or were you OFFERED more than one class date and just deferred your class date further out?

I agree that if they offered you a class date and you declined, unless you were SPECIFICALLY TOLD you could come to a later class date, you probably screwed yourself out of a job.

Back to your original question, you didn't tell us where you wanted to be finally for the remainder of your career.

If you want to fly heavy metal international for the rest of your career, then why did you need more turbine PIC? CX isn't going anywhere, you'll eventually upgrade, and get all the turbine PIC you want.

If you want to fly for a major here stateside, you're in a good position to simply fly another 2 1/2 MONTHS at your current regional, finish that 1,000 PIC mark, then start putting the applications out. If you have some good contacts, you should be able to get into that major in the next 2 years.

Lastly, for what people were saying earlier, Cathay doesn't hire direct-entry F/O's on the passenger side. They only hire directly into the F/O seat for the U.S. Freighter operation here in the states, then you have to work there for a number of years before you can transfer into the pax side, then you have to agree to be based overseas for your first year or so of pax operation (unless that's changed in the last year since I interviewed).

I interviewed at the same time I interviewed at AirTran, was offered the job, and passed on CX in favor or AirTran, simply because I have a wife and kids and don't want to be gone that long at a time with that few days off per month. I like my 3 days on, 4 days off trip rotation with a 50 minute commute into domicile.

Hard decision, as I like the money and would LOVE to fly the whale, but it's not worth it if I'm gone that long at a time. Just my .02 cents.
 
Last edited:
Actually,

Cathay IS hiring direct entry into the pax fleet, just not in the U.S.

YOU DONT HAVE TO LIVE OVERSEAS TO WORK FOR CATHAY, OR TO FLY PAX! Many have never left North America. During your Command training you will go back to hong kong for training and shortly after return to your basing. I have stated this before.

Lear70, I remember having this discussion awhile back, and you said you never actually interviewed at CX and just turned down the "Interview" because you were already at Airtran? Sounds a bit fishy?

Two 6 day trips a month is hardly being away for a lot, but to each is own. West coast guys and relief's are working a bit harder on the freighter.

For the original poster, if CX offered a class date, it is usually offered with a few months notice. So gaining 200 hours would not have been an issue. I had to help a buddy of mine who did this, and it wasn't pretty. He was lucky to get another class.
 
I would kill to be 15 years younger. I'd go to CX in a heartbeat if I got the chance.

They are well run, China's not going anywhere--you have as much job security as you can have in this business.

The culture is a little, well, British... Right, then. Carry on. (I think there is a question on wooden airscrews and carburator icing in the tech interview... ;) )

Good luck. TC
 
If you have the option of going to a later class - not only is it a good move its a smart move.

I have friends at CX who joined very gung-ho and open-minded to the experience. A number of them have left because of the culture. Don't shoot the messenger just passing on what their reasoning is.

If you can make it work for you - great. If not. the 1000 PIC leaves open a lot of doors especially since you will have glass intl. heavy time.

Good luck,

You will love the 400.

fv.
 
I declined the class b/c I want a bit more time to get at least 1000TPIC before I go.
Good move or bad move? All thoughts and opinions are welcome.

It’s probably too late to be asking for opinions but I would have taken the CX job and then get a part-time job somewhere close to home to fly a KingAir or other turbine aircraft every now and then - just enough to get the 1K turbine PIC.

With the -400 experience you’d pretty much have a guaranteed job at UPS. Seems like they have a former CXer in every class.


CX isn't going anywhere, you'll eventually upgrade, and get all the turbine PIC you want.

Maybe or maybe not?! From what I’ve heard the CX training department is quite famous for their anti-American bias and many Yankees fail their superior super duper Captain-to-the-Almighty-British-Standards course. Quite often these "inferior pilots" performed quite well at their previous airlines (TWA, USAir, AA) but of course Cathay captains are the best of the best! ;)

- Got this info from a former Cathay pilot who’s currently at UPS; he said he loved the pay, the benefits and the equipment, but hated the airline itself. He said that if Cathay was based in the US, the ACLU would become ultra rich (aren't they already?) from all the lawsuits as Cathay’s sheer existence is based on discrimination.

Of course, this is just his view, he might be totally wrong but after all he spent several years over there so I figured he must know something…
 
Thanks for all of the replies guys. Just to clarify, I DID NOT turn down the job. I just requested a later class date. They were fine with that. I agree with the above that lots of guys go with open eyes and minds, but i do know that lots of 'Yanks' have left. I will be living in base, so hopefully it wont be bad.
 
I'm a CX hopeful myself, except I want to take the SO route into the Pax fleet. Batman's 1000 PIC idea certainly doesn't seem like a bad one. That number does open a lot of doors that have a tendency to be locked otherwise. If he's still got a class date, there's no real harm. If things don't pan out at CX like he hopes (and there are enough trolls on pprune to give anyone pause), then it could be a long time before he sees turbine PIC again, especially if he's hoping to transfer to the Pax fleet. It's the conservative play, and I think he's got the right idea. Best of luck at CX, or wherever you end up!
 
.

Maybe or maybe not?! From what I’ve heard the CX training department is quite famous for their anti-American bias and many Yankees fail their superior super duper Captain-to-the-Almighty-British-Standards course. Quite often these "inferior pilots" performed quite well at their previous airlines (TWA, USAir, AA) but of course Cathay captains are the best of the best! ;)


Have to agree with the supercilious attitude of the British regarding their "superior" training standards. They tend to look at their US cousins with a degree of contempt on this matter. Probably something to do with their voluminous written test courses stuffed with knowledge you wouldn't use outside of academia!

What wouldn't surprise me though is that despite their "superior" standards, the standard of air safety and accident rates between us and them is probably negligible!
 
I don't think it was a bad move to put off the class date to get TPIC. It will give you options if Cathay doesn't work for you.

Cathay is not hiring FO's directly onto the PAX fleet, yet. Some poeple think that the freighter and PAX fleets will merge and we will all be on the higher pay scale. It make sense for scheduling and will keep guys from leaving.

Cathay is loosing alot of guys! Some are going back to their seniority at their former carriers, some going to UPS, and alot are going to Oasis, a new startup based in Hong Kong that is offering very quick times to upgrade and good money. Something good is going to come out of this for all those left and those wanting to get in.

The training depatment is what you make of it. I have had GREAT experiences there. Anal? YES!, but I don't think they've crossed the line. Professional? YES!

I don't know of any other airline where after 2 years of employment flying the -400 you get offered a captain upgrade course. You have to enforce high standards to offer that.

North Americans can be laxed when it comes to radio procedures and book knowlege. Why? We usually only fly in our ATC environment and our ATP requirements are very simple compared with most other countries. It's not a problem flying around the US. Upgrade time in the states is usually a healthy number of years and you do many take-offs and landings a month. I have flown with 747-400 captains that are in their early thirites flying very international. Again, you have to have demanding standards in order for that to be possible.
 
Last edited:
North Americans can be laxed

Who exactly are North Americans? Is this the new North America Union everyone is talking about? Do you call Chinese East Asians? Or would it be West Asians?
 
Get your 1000TPIC, then build the wide body experience at CX, and go to UPS. There you will have a career without constant intimidation and fear of losing your job every 3 months.
 
North Americans can be laxed

Who exactly are North Americans? Is this the new North America Union everyone is talking about? Do you call Chinese East Asians? Or would it be West Asians?

Americans and Candians, you know folks from the North American Continent.:)

A European would be anyone from the continent of Europe. More broad then say a Frenchmen or Itialian.
 
Last edited:
Get your 1000TPIC, then build the wide body experience at CX, and go to UPS. There you will have a career without constant intimidation and fear of losing your job every 3 months.

I have know fear of loosing my job every 3 months. I would say airlines that have furloughed in the past have a much worse employment record then CX.

UPS is great, no doubt, but I think alot of pilots will find awesome oppertunities at CX.
 
I don't intend to bash CX, but I think you made a great choice in delaying your class date to get your 1000 hours. I was in your shoes a few years back and it saved my butt! Best of luck; CX is a great airline with fantastic opportunities. Just go in with a very open mind!
 
Americans and Candians, you know folks from the North American Continent.

A European would be anyone from the continent of Europe. More broad then say a Frenchmen or Itialian.

I know what you mean Bnjamin, I just think it's a strange term - North Americans. If you're going to keep using it, I expect you to call all Chinese East Asians from now on - that's all.

As far as you being happy at Cathay and "not worrying" every 3 months - I'm happy for you, I really am, but based on what I remember you're fairly new to Cathay, so you are probably still drinking company’s koolaid.

My friend who spent there 4+ years says that you'll realize what everyone is talking about eventually. Just can't see why so many pilots would leave Cathay after 4,5 or even 6 years if there wasn’t a major problem there with their training department. Maybe you’ll be the exception to the rule, who knows?

Ps. Remember, we are Americans and/or Canadians NOT North Americans! ;)
 
Last edited:
I think going to Cathay is a great experience......HOWEVER, unless you plan to stay there forever for sure, I would do everything I could to get AT LEAST 1000 PIC Turbine (I prefer 1500 minimum but you don't seem to have that option) BEFORE you go there. Good luck!
 
I know what you mean Bnjamin, I just think it's a strange term - North Americans. If you're going to keep using it, I expect you to call all Chinese East Asians from now on - that's all.

I will call Chinese Asians, as well as people from Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, etc.

North America is a continent. Why is it wrong to lump floks from that continent together? America is a great country on that continent. ;)

As far as you being happy at Cathay and "not worrying" every 3 months - I'm happy for you, I really am, but based on what I remember you're fairly new to Cathay, so you are probably still drinking company’s koolaid.

My friend who spent there 4+ years says that you'll realize what everyone is talking about eventually. Just can't see why so many pilots would leave Cathay after 4,5 or even 6 years if there wasn’t a major problem there with their training department. Maybe you’ll be the exception to the rule, who knows?


Over 2 years with the company.

People leave for many reasons. That don't want to study that hard, don't like long Haul, or the strict standards. All good reasons to leave for some people. No problem. :beer:
 
Over 2 years with the company.

That don't want to study that hard - hmm he is a former major airline captain and a former check airman - seriously doubt he doesn't "want to study hard",

don't like long Haul - doubt that too, he, and most other ex-Cathay pilots went to UPS, I'd say they do long haul too ;),

or the strict standards - doubt that as well, UPS training can be pretty strict too, they just (for obvious reasons) don't happen to have an anti-american bias.

All good reasons to leave for some people.

You're right, there are many reason why people would leave a "great" airline - you just didn't happen to mention any logical nor probable ones.

Btw. it's amazing how your view differes from the majority Cathay pilots on pprune.com as well- are you a training department spy? ;)

Anyway, I'll leave you alone now, wish you the best at your East Asian airline! :)
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom