Cathay Pacific

[House_X]

House_X
Any comments regarding Capt U's post?

pprune speaks for itself. I did the research, met some people from CX in person...mostly aussies...they were miserable. If it's too good to be true...it is. Flying A340's, hot HK chicks and living stipends is the dream they are selling...but it isn't what's delivered. If your a yankee and try to leave CX, good luck getting your records transfered for proof of employment. Go on pprune.

S/O, junior F/O, senior F/O...unless your hired at 23, you'll never see Captain....mandatory retirement at 55 years will ensure this.
Most of the games played over in HK on the pilots would be illegal in the States.

Korean Air, JAL, ANA, Asiana, Malaysian, are much better places to work and they hire expatriates.

Capt U
I'm not pretending to be an expert nor am I trying to start a flame war...but you have to admit, an UNUSUAL number of pilots are not happy at CX...and they have gotten screwed repeatedly by the company. It used to be a dream job back in the good ole days...it's not the good ole days anymore.

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

H_X

I guess because I am an "A"-scaler, left seat and I can (and do) leave the B-S behind, I am happy - but it's taken time. Five years ago, I would have quit if anything remotely approaching CX had come along.

It's said when you join CX, you get two buckets - one labelled "$" the other labelled "SH1T". Leave when either fills up.

FYI, we have just made a 32-year old ex-s/o a skipper on the 777.

TTC at present 10 years.

 

[xray]

"Korean Air, JAL, ANA, Asiana, Malaysian, are much better places to work and they hire expatriates. "

House_X,

interesting comment...nearly fell off my chair. Seeing that you have done the "research" on pprune etc on CX, please enlighten us on what further research you made to come out with that comment. Actually, in a way you could do alot of guys a favor, because that kind of comment may stop somebody from applying, hence giving somebody else a shot at what in current times is a pretty good job. By the way, there is plenty of interviewing going on, and jobs to be taken if you get moving with your application. Have to agree with Cpt. Underpants here, in that if you can drop all things CX while on your time off, it can be a great place to work.

"you'll never see Captain....mandatory retirement at 55 years will ensure this."

well, not so fast. One of the guys is starting command course shortly onto the 744F and he has been in the company probably 3 1/2 years.

Look, its not perfect and not right for everybody, however, you have to learn to play the game, say the right things at the right times to the right people, and you'll have a pretty good time.

xray

 

[GCD]

You did your research? Korean KAL is a miserable place to work, and Malaysian hasn't hired an expat, that I know of, for some time ( at least since my class was cancelled in 1997 ).

I do know some folks working there at Cathay. Many are happy, some are miserable. It seems that most of the miserable are Aussies.

Most of the big complainers at JAL, when I worked there, were the Aussies. Yet, they still worked there.

I once thought the Aussies were fun, but I got tired of the mandatory fist fight after five beers, and the constant complaining.

 

[bayoubandit]

Are these comments for both the freight and px divisions?

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

PAX vs. Freight @ CX

PAX

Pros:

Better aircraft
Better routes
Better Conditions Of Service (COS)
More bases
Cookie-Chuckers
Hong Kong based if you choose

Cons:

Start as S/O
TTC 10 - 12 years

FREIGHT

Pros:

TTC 3 - 5 years
No SLF to deal with
Based outside of Hong Kong - no HKG bases
More "challenging" flying - more hand-flying, less automation dependant

Cons:

Only B744F (and they're getting OLD) B742/3F on their way out
Limited route structure
Poor COS
Limited bases
No biscuit-shooters to keep you warm at night
Salary 30 - 40% lower than pax
The "poor cousin" of the airline - an afterthought in many COS deals

Whatever works for you - make your choice - money over lifestyle.

 

[House_X]

"Korean Air, JAL, ANA, Asiana, Malaysian, are much better places to work and they hire expatriates. "

House_X,

interesting comment...nearly fell off my chair. Seeing that you have done the "research" on pprune etc on CX, please enlighten us on what further research you made to come out with that comment. Actually, in a way you could do alot of guys a favor, because that kind of comment may stop somebody from applying, hence giving somebody else a shot at what in current times is a pretty good job. By the way, there is plenty of interviewing going on, and jobs to be taken if you get moving with your application. Have to agree with Cpt. Underpants here, in that if you can drop all things CX while on your time off, it can be a great place to work.

"you'll never see Captain....mandatory retirement at 55 years will ensure this."

well, not so fast. One of the guys is starting command course shortly onto the 744F and he has been in the company probably 3 1/2 years.

Look, its not perfect and not right for everybody, however, you have to learn to play the game, say the right things at the right times to the right people, and you'll have a pretty good time.

xray

Are you guys from the States? Just curious.

Re: Korean Air.
I know a 747 CA at Korean...nothing but good things to say about it. He's an Expat. and lives in Souel.

Re: Malaysian:
I guess the crew I talked w/ at Narita was lying too me...

Has CX has changed in terms of solving the "issues" between management and the pilot group? The previous ALPA ban, the 49er's, etc. These are still legitamate concerns that career pilots must evaluate for job stability. This is not a flame post. CX has great equipment, great routes etc. It seems that the relationship between these two groups is still "work in progress"...according to pprune.

 

[potrack]

Cathay Scabs?

A few years ago I remember there being some skuttle-butt about pilots getting hired for the freighters while pax pilots were getting furloughed.

The word spread that these guys were scabs.

Another post on this website mentions a UAL Capt dening the jumpseat because the pilot was a CX guy.

When I return to my furloughed airline......I don't want to have any baggage hanging over me?

Can anyone give the straight scoop on this topic?????

 

[FoxHunter]

Prior to 1995 the freighters at CX were crewed by Cathay seniority list pilots and FEs. In 1995 it appears that the management decided to hire direct entry Captains, F/Os, and FEs for the 747-200Fs at a much lower pay scale. This side organization was call ASL. Their source for these low paid pilots was the USA. The orginization used to recruit the pilots was UPAS. UPAS at the time was owned by another well know aviation organization, ALPA of Herdon, VA.

 

[House_X]

Anyone have any info on the Cathay Pacific initial interview?

Patman

Patman,

I wouldn't give up on Independence Air...Airbuses, growth and profit sharing are on the horizon. CX it isn't worth giving up your seniority number...

If you want to fly heavies in ASIA, look at IASCO, WAS and Hawaiian Aviation Services...more stable, better pay and contracts are under US laws.

 

[xray]

House_X,

I was going to post a long reply.....but thought brevity would be better (plus doesn't take up as much of my time!).
yes-from the states
The industrial relationship between management and the Union is better than it has been for a while, and there has been some meaningful dialogue between the 2 parties. We vote on a new rostering practices deal hammered out between the 2 parties next month. The IFALPA recruitment ban was dropped last June (I think) as part of the attempt to improve relations etc. The 49ers issue remains unresolved.....there are a bunch of court cases going on around the world in relation to them. Not sure what will happen there other than to say that I believe that this issue will have to be addressed eventually by the company. I am guessing that both the union and company are getting used to talking to each other first and then the Union will try to approach the subject. I would hazard a guess to say that the company regret doing what they did.....but would never admit to that.

From the standpoint of CX vs all those other airlines you mentioned and advised patman to check out....all I can say is that if you asked any CX pilot whether he would consider leaving his job for those that you mentioned.....probably 99 out of 100 would say no way. Ask those expats at those airlines mentioned whether they would leave their job to join CX...I would think alot more would say they would take the job than those who would rather stay. I've flown with several guys who have done time with Korean, and were very happy to be out of there.

I'm not going to bother talking about the whole ASL/freighter thing from the past except to say that if you join CX now, be it as an SO or freighter FO, you join the same seniority list and are all CX. There exists opportunity to swap between operating the pax a/c and freighter throughout your career....to a large extent, it is up to what you want to do/where you want to live. The reason why some very junior guys are getting commands on the freighter is because the pay scale (in the Nth American case at least) for left seat are about the same or less than right seat for pax fleet guys based in the US. Plus the roster is better on the pax fleet, etc. Also to bid for a Nth American command slot on the freighter, you pretty much need to be living/be able to live in Nth America.....hence the pool of pilots in CX that can actually bid/make it work, is fairly small.

So, thats about it. I don't regret joining CX at all and have had a good time overall. I don't plan on going anywhere else either.
To me it is certainly worth applying for......wait until you get a job offer before you actually finally have to make a decision. If you get invited to HKG for 2nd round of interviews....you'll get a good idea of what its all about and should definitely be able to hunt down some Nth Americans to talk to about their experience/feelings.

xray

 

[House_X]

xray,

Thanks for the reply...you've convinced me to take a second look and talk to more CX'ers out there...in this day and age, you have to be careful changing flying jobs...you could jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. I've had my eye on CX in the past, but the issues with labor the past 5 years shyed me away from it...

I wish these types of discussions happened more often...it was civilized and I learned something...thanks.

House