Category II for Part 91 Operators

[2000flyer]

I'm looking into the certification process for CAT II operations for our flight department. I'm in the initial stages of collecting information and writing a manual and I'm curious if there are any 91 operators out there who are certified.

- How useful do you feel the need for CAT II authorization?
- How often do you fly a CAT II approach?
- Do you have / use HGS?

I appreciate any comments you all might have.

Regards,
2000Flyer

 

[Computer Geek]

I think you need to ask yourself if it is worth the effort to certify the crews and maintain the aircraft for CATII.

1) How many diverts have you had in the last 5 years due to wx?

2) What airports do you service regularly? Do they even have a CATII approach?


CG
P.S.

(I can count the number of CATII approaches I have done on one hand in the last ten years of being CATII certified)

 

[banned username 2]

We are going to be getting our Falcon 50EX and Falcon 900EX fleet CAT II certified...

We are also just in the very initial stages...

You do NOT use the HGS for the approach, CAT II is a coupled approach....

In the near future Europe is going to be requiring CAT II for movements in the EU when weeather is below a specified limit...

As I understand it, maintaining CAT II is merely an extra sim session... and getting CAT II is about a 2 day process at FSI (of course this is after all the paperwork and red tape is done)

Hope this helps... I am looking forward to our CAT II certification...

 

[fokkerjet]

Have you guys talked with the avionics guru at Teterboro FSI? He has worked with several operators trying to get CAT II. I believe FSI has a boilerplate CAT II manual.

 

[2000flyer]

Thanks guys. While true we would rarely require the use of CATII, it would be nice to have that option. Falcon Capt., you are correct on the pilot certification. A couple of days on the initial certification and then it's added to your regular recurrent. As far as keeping current, all you need is six CAT I approaches in six months and do your recurrents every six months.

FAA Order 8400.13A is for landing at CAT I airports under CATII weather (1800RVR), but I haven't gotten to deeply into that because I'm told there are very few airports that are already approved for this operation (the requirements are numerous but one is these airports don't require TDZL or Center Line Lights). I have a copy of the order, or a link for anyone interested.

I realize that HGS is not required for CAT II, but it is very useful. We are also studying the need for HGS and it seems that with more manufactures going to some type of enhanced vision systems which will only be displayable on an HGS/HUD.

I hadn't heard the requirement in Europe. I'd like more info on that if you have something.

FokkerJet....I had lunch with him yesterday. He's a great wealth of info and knowledge!

Thanks again.

2000Flyer

 

[banned username 2]

I don't really have more info at this time.. I am not in charge of this project... we really haven't done anything yet except get an idea if it is "doable" or not... I think after the first of the year someone will be selected to head up this program for us... I don't think it will be me as my plate is pretty full as it is right now...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Yes I believe it is a 2 day process at FSI to stay current.

Many have looked into staying certified and current on CAT II in corporate operations and I think many have come to the same conclusion....Its a real neat idea but more of a pain in the a$$ to keep up with than its worth. I personally, really dont want to spend any "extra" days at FSI each time to shoot some CAT II approaches and stay current in the HUD. No thanks...No If you have a fairly big department, EACH pilot has to do this....again, no thanks.

Add to the training requirement, the cost of the HUD itself. Im guessing it is a 600K option on the 2000/900EX now.

I do know of one corp operator in the NY area that keeps up with this, but thats all I ever heard of.

 

[banned username 2]

Add to the training requirement, the cost of the HUD itself. Im guessing it is a 600K option on the 2000/900EX now.

No HUD/HGS for CAT II... Staying CAT II is fairly easy and relatively inexpensive... CAT III on the other hand is an entirely different story...

 

[501261]

You know every couple of years the discussion comes up if whether we should try and get Cat II certification or not. And every couple of years I reach the same conclusion that it's simply not worth the hassle.

Look at the big corporate airports in the US and see which are CAT II certified, BED, TEB, MMU, FGR, FLL, PDW, DPA, MDW, DAL, SDL, SMO, SNA; NONE ARE!!!!! Sure you can take the Cat I mins down to 1800RVR, but why bother. Flight visibility doesn't change a whole lot at 1/2sm to 1800rvr.

Out of OUR ROUTINE (10 or more flights a year) operations only 1 airport has Cat II/III certification. And I'm not about to wait in line, trying to get into XXX on a Cat II day, when I can guarantee you that we get into one of the other area airports, hire a limo and get the people to the office in less time than the ground stop at XXX on a bad day.

Simply put it depends on the operation, obviously if you’re based at some airport that is Cat II certified. It is something to look into.

For us it is simply not practical, especially when nothing prevents us from using our Pt. 91 privilege of shooting the approach. Now, having said that I am a FIRM believer on NOT starting an approach you can't finish! If it's less than a 1/4, there's absolutely no reason to subject your passengers to the inevitable missed!!!

 

[banned username 2]

Look at the big corporate airports in the US and see which are CAT II certified, BED, TEB, MMU, FGR, FLL, PDW, DPA, MDW, DAL, SDL, SMO, SNA; NONE ARE!!!!!

Your right, but Europe is soon going to become an issue.... that is why we are looking into it... not for the States...