CAs flying as FOs?

[Flyby1206]

Is this a common practice at your regional to have CAs used to fly right seat as FOs when staffing is short? Are there any contracts that forbid this?

 

[WSurf]

Piedmont did it a bunch last year during the mass exodus of FO's to other regionals.

No biggie, but the funny thing is that Piedmont was offering double premium for Captains to pick up FO trips during the shortage. So some guys were making like 150.00 bucks an hour to sit in the right seat of a 37 seat prop.

 

[Sig]

So some guys were making like 150.00 bucks an hour to sit in the right seat of a 37 seat prop.

I think Olympus picked up the best paying leg of all time...


DH SBY-PHL, short sit, PHL-SBY, done. Double premium = 12 hours' pay for a 50 minute blocked leg.

 

[John Pennekamp]

ASA did it right up until two years ago. According to the training department, they stopped it for safety reasons.

 

[WSurf]

Thats awesome...

Had a captain DH from EWN to SBY to overnight and just fly one leg to CLT the next day as FO, then DH to EWN.

I think the dude was home by 9:30am.

Away from home for 23 hours, paid 24 hours.

 

[Trcb777]

I think it has something to do with CatII at ASA.

 

[GOULET!]

Lot's of places dual seat qualify people so CAs can fly as FOs. Might as well. Easy way to staff flights rather than cancel them for shortages.

 

[nyboilermaker]

Scumbags sit in the right seat when they're Captains.

Everytime he/she sits in that F/O seat, First Officers are losing money and the company is getting away with paying the F/O a sh*tty salary.

Why do you think there are no F/Os? Because they pay them 20K a year. Don't cover for your company because then they will continue to pay F/O food stamp worthy salaries.

Captains, think about sitting in the right seat because next time it'll be someone sitting in yours for half the pay.

-NYB

 

[sweptback]

ASA did it right up until two years ago. According to the training department, they stopped it for safety reasons.

The new contract forbids this as well.

 

[WSurf]

Scumbags sit in the right seat when they're Captains.

Everytime he/she sits in that F/O seat, First Officers are losing money and the company is getting away with paying the F/O a sh*tty salary.

Why do you think there are no F/Os? Because they pay them 20K a year. Don't cover for your company because then they will continue to pay F/O food stamp worthy salaries.

Captains, think about sitting in the right seat because next time it'll be someone sitting in yours for half the pay.

-NYB

There is still Regionals only paying 20k a year? wink wink.

Well lets see, people were leaving Piedmont to go to Republic to make the same or less money flying a EMB-175? AKA the shiney Jet Syndrome....

I don't think Captains flying in the right seat affects FO pay as much as guys wanting to fly Large RJ's for crap pay.

Think before you post.... wink wink

 

[CA1900]

There is still Regionals only paying 20k a year?

Well, CommutAir's up to $20,748 now...

 

[John Pennekamp]

I think it has something to do with CatII at ASA.

Yeah, forgot about that one.

 

[nyboilermaker]

There is still Regionals only paying 20k a year?

Think before you post.... wink wink

Not sure what the "wink wink" is for, but you're absolutely right, Mid-Atlantic, Chautauqua flying Fokker sizes airplanes and I'm sure the list goes on because I haven't been in the regional loop in a couple years, but flying big Embraer's and Super Sized CRJs for the same pay at they were flying 50 seaters has been the biggest problem for all (I think all) the Legacy carriers. $40 bucks an hour at USAir when those same sized airplanes were paying out 2 or 3x that 10 years ago.

...our worse enemies as they say.

 

[FO 4 Life]

Scumbags sit in the right seat when they're Captains.

Everytime he/she sits in that F/O seat, First Officers are losing money and the company is getting away with paying the F/O a sh*tty salary.

Why do you think there are no F/Os? Because they pay them 20K a year. Don't cover for your company because then they will continue to pay F/O food stamp worthy salaries.

Captains, think about sitting in the right seat because next time it'll be someone sitting in yours for half the pay.

-NYB

So you'll be happy to do the dance for the CP when you get called in for refusing a trip that complied with the contract?

 

[nyboilermaker]

So you'll be happy to do the dance for the CP when you get called in for refusing a trip that complied with the contract?

That's why we try to only work for companies that have good contracts that don't allow this type of nonsense to go on.

If your contract allows it, work together next time with your union to rid it from your working agreement.

Here's a tip that seems to work with all the "tryin' to help out Captains" out there. Don't pick up the phone.


Out,
NYB

 

[FO 4 Life]

That's why we try to only work for companies that have good contracts that don't allow this type of nonsense to go on.

If your contract allows it, work together next time with your union to rid it from your working agreement.

Here's a tip that seems to work with all the "tryin' to help out Captains" out there. Don't pick up the phone.


Out,
NYB

Doesn't work on reserve. So what was a good company in 1999? Thought Eagle would be pretty good.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

You can blame the french. That's right. ASA had to stop doing it because in an Air France audit of its codeshare carriers, the french would not tolerate this safety practice on any airline that would codeshare with Air France. It's not because of CAT II. Remember, the ATR was always cat II certified, and right seat captains as fo/s were never prohibited from doing a CAT II.

 

[SplitBar]

Thats awesome...

Had a captain DH from EWN to SBY to overnight and just fly one leg to CLT the next day as FO, then DH to EWN.

I think the dude was home by 9:30am.

Away from home for 23 hours, paid 24 hours.

I got that beat. I had a 20 1/4 hour credit day trip where I was on duty for 15 hours. It was a premium pay trip where we blocked 9.5 hours + 4.0 (minday) kicked in because we didn't get off duty until after 2am the next day. Total pay for the day trip was 13.5 x 1.5 = 20 1/4 pay.

 

[WSurf]

I got that beat. I had a 20 1/4 hour credit day trip where I was on duty for 15 hours. It was a premium pay trip where we blocked 9.5 hours + 4.0 (minday) kicked in because we didn't get off duty until after 2am the next day. Total pay for the day trip was 13.5 x 1.5 = 20 1/4 pay.

yea but you had to earn that, sounds like a monster day. we are taking about short duty days, one leg trip with the nice amount of money.

 

[SplitBar]

yea but you had to earn that, sounds like a monster day. we are taking about short duty days, one leg trip with the nice amount of money.

Nope. Easy 4 leg day that didn't report until noon. Even got fed lunch and dinner with left over 1st class meals. Dam I miss the Avro!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

You can blame the french. That's right. ASA had to stop doing it because in an Air France audit of its codeshare carriers, the french would not tolerate this safety practice on any airline that would codeshare with Air France. It's not because of CAT II. Remember, the ATR was always cat II certified, and right seat captains as fo/s were never prohibited from doing a CAT II.

Uhhh...the ATR was only CAT II certified a few months before the CRJ....

 

[vectorvictor]

Scumbags sit in the right seat when they're Captains.

Everytime he/she sits in that F/O seat, First Officers are losing money and the company is getting away with paying the F/O a sh*tty salary.

Why do you think there are no F/Os? Because they pay them 20K a year. Don't cover for your company because then they will continue to pay F/O food stamp worthy salaries.

Captains, think about sitting in the right seat because next time it'll be someone sitting in yours for half the pay.

-NYB

If you are flying an airplane with less than 80 seats and you were hired in the last 15 years you are probably sitting in someone's seat for half the pay. FO's get paid what they get paid due to supply and demand. As long as there are folks out there willing to take the job for that pay, the salaries won't increase. Wanna go after someone, how about the folks signing up 18 year olds for 75k in flight training that they can't afford?

 

[dojetdriver]

More on the topic of the thread.

My current company allows it, but I think it may be reserve CA's only.

My last job, only prop CA's were allowed to be used in the right seat, but only within the first six months of them being qualified as a CA. I thought the distinction between a prop CA being forced to fly as FO and not a jet CA was stupid.

IMO, the practice is dumb, and EVERY CBA should prohibit it.

The CA has already put in his time at that company, gone through the upgrade, is in the left seat. Although it may be "easy money", you should never be forced to sit in the right seat after you've qualified as a CA.

 

[Kaman]

Not uncommon for CJC check airman to get "Shanghai'd" into the left-seat because of low-manning. No extra pay, because you aren't performing check airman duties. I wasn't really crazy about doing it only because if something did occur they'd likely hang me out to dry even though I didn't sign for the trip. Also, I am sure some of my landings from the right-seat were a "little" scary after not doing it for awhile...

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[BSkin]

Not uncommon for CJC check airman to get "Shanghai'd" into the left-seat because of low-manning. No extra pay, because you aren't performing check airman duties. I wasn't really crazy about doing it only because if something did occur they'd likely hang me out to dry even though I didn't sign for the trip. Also, I am sure some of my landings from the right-seat were a "little" scary after not doing it for awhile...

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

They did away with Check Airman pay when flying as FO? Had it when I left in '04. Doesn't surprise me since there is no union.

 

[CoolGuy92]

There is still Regionals only paying 20k a year? wink wink.

Well lets see, people were leaving Piedmont to go to Republic to make the same or less money flying a EMB-175? AKA the shiney Jet Syndrome....

I don't think Captains flying in the right seat affects FO pay as much as guys wanting to fly Large RJ's for crap pay.

Think before you post.... wink wink

First Year Pay:
Piedmont: $25 Republic: $23

Second Year FO Pay:
Piedmont: $29 Republic: $31

Third Year Pay:
Piedmont (still FO): $31 Republic (CA):$73/$66

Fourth Year Pay CA:
Piedmont: $54/$49 Republic (CA):$75/$68

Top Out Pay:
Piedmont: 25 years $78/$69
Republic: 20 years $119/$108

Junior CA:
Piedmont: Jul 04 Republic: Aug 06

First year pay sucks. Piedmont has RP beat first year. Amazing that an 86 seat jet FO makes the same amount as a 30 seat turboprop FO. However, Quick upgrades, and decent top out pay, are hard to beat though for a regional right now. Its hard to keep pilots anymore as you can get a job with 250 hours and no multi these days. This industry never fails to amaze me.

I suppose its all about supply and demand. Personally, I don't see why some of the shorter routes aren't being supplied by the dash 8 400 rather than a 76 seat RJ. As a former turbo prop driver, its hard for me to rationalize a 15 minute jet flight with 70 people when a prop could do it more efficiently. However, I still think the 70-90 seat jet certainly has its niche. Just not on the super short, or super long legs. The industry is a poor mix of inefficiency and passenger perception.

OK, my work here is done. Here's to getting along, cause you never know when your current FO is gonna be your next Chief Pilot.