carry SCBA tanks?

[satpak77]

I have a request to transport SCBA scuba tanks with 3000 PSI of air on my airplane

yes/no? etc

 

[fastandlow]

Even flying in a total vacuum (100,000+ ft) would only increase the delta P 14.7 psi, 0.5%. Unless some reg says no, it wouldn't bother me from a practical standpoint.

 

[cvsfly]

Not in 135 or 121. Empty the tank.

 

[HMR]

I have a request to transport SCBA scuba tanks with 3000 PSI of air on my airplane

yes/no? etc

Carrying SCUBA tanks is a pain. It's always easier to rent at the destination. If there is no place to rent then there probably isn't a place to get a refill which means you'll have to carry LOTS of tanks.

I've seen people travel with tanks and weight belts. Doesn't make any sense to me. The only reason I own a tank is because I used to be able to suit up in my bedroom and walk to a good dive spot. Now I'm trying to figure out how to make it into a lampstand.

Unless their last name is Cousteau, tell 'em to rent.

 

[satpak77]

thanks for the comments

I was thinking "worst case" scenario, like loosing press at 250 and now I have some scuba tanks onboard who just went from 8000 cabin to 250, with unknown results

I lean towards "no"

 

[FN FAL]

Not in 135 or 121. Empty the tank.

Check with some certified scuba pro, but totally emptying the tanks may not be good for the tanks.

 

[e12pilot]

Check with some certified scuba pro, but totally emptying the tanks may not be good for the tanks.

It isn't the best idea to completely drain the tanks, but as longasthere isn't excess moisture around I wouldn't worry about leavingthemempty for a short flight.

Of course a visual done by a qualified shop wouldn't hurt either if it is that time of year again.

I was thinking "worst case" scenario, like loosingpress at 250 and nowI have some scuba tanks on board who just went from 8000 cabin to 250,with unknown results

How does the cabin pressure of an airliner have any affect on a sealed non-flexible container?

You know those little portable oxygen cylinders you have in yourplane? They usually have slightly less PSI(2400psi) than astandard SCUBA cylinder(about 3000psi for an AL tank), however theprinciple is the same. A pressure change outside of the cylinder in anaircraft would not affect the structural integrity of a SCUBA cylinder.

I think the concern here is for a cylinder rupture causedbymis-handling or some turbulence. Dropping a cylinder on it's neckfroma moderate height could certainly have some adverse affects on theairplane that was transporting it(i.e. it shooting out the side).

Here is what the current TSA policy is on SCUBA cylinders:

A compressed gas cylinder is allowed in carry-on or checked baggageONLYif the regulator valve is completely disconnected from thecylinder andthe cylinder is no longer sealed (i.e. the cylinder has anopen end).The cylinder must have an opening to allow for a visualinspectioninside. TSA Security Screeners will NOT remove theseal/regulator valvefrom the cylinder at the checkpoint. If thecylinder is sealed (i.e. theregulator valve is still attached), thecylinder is prohibited and notpermitted through the securitycheckpoint, regardless of the reading onthe pressure gauge indicator.TSA Security Screeners must visibly ensurethat the cylinder iscompletely empty and that there are no prohibiteditems inside.

I would follow the TSA policy and instruct your passengers to removethe valves from their cylinders. They will need them refilled when youland, but at least you can feel a little bit safer knowing that you arenot carrying cylinders that have the potential to turn into rockets.

Peter

 

[psysicx]

HMR why are you quiting SCUBA?Or do you just rent?

 

[FracCapt]

I have a request to transport SCBA scuba tanks with 3000 PSI of air on my airplane

yes/no? etc

No. The hazard has nothing to do with the fact that you are going to a higher altitude and decreasing the pressure outside the cylinder, nor is it an issue in a rapid decompression. The hazard is if the cylinder gets banged around and the valve is knocked loose(for lack of a better term). That valve then becomes a projectile shooting out of the cylinder, and the cylinder becomes a projectile in the opposite direction. The other potential problem is if there is a hard impact on the wall of the cylinder(anything other than the valve), the cylinder can be weakened enough to rupture - possibly throwing fragments of aluminum or steel, depending on what type of cylinder it is. Now, if you see the way I handle my SCUBA cylinders, you wouldn't think this would be a problem....but YOU have no idea what kind of shape those cylinders are in.

Tell the passengers they will have to remove the valves in order to transport them. This protects YOU and THEM. It protects everybody on board because with no valve there is no pressure in the cylinder, therefore no potential for it to rupture or lose the valve. It protects them(and whoever does their air fills) because if they just empty the cylinder, but leave the valve in....it could be damaged by some sort of impact that would cause the tank to rupture the next time it's filled. Tell them to go to any SCUBA shop and get plugs for the cylinders(just a piece of plastic that keeps moisture and debris out of the cylinder, but will not hold pressure). Every shop I know of will give them to you for free.

BTW, as somebody stated, your Oxygen cylinders in the airplane are pressurized to between 2250psi and 2640psi(depending on model) when full. They are outside the pressure vessel. They are subject to the pressure and temperature drops outside. Ever notice how while you're flying at altitude for a long period of time, the Oxygen pressure goes down? But then when you're on the ground and it warms back up, it goes back up to normal. That's due to the cooling of the gas inside the cylinder.

 

[hoop]

Rent it

Airlines make you take out the valve. tell em to rent tank and weights. That I don't mind. You'll be miserable if you don't take your own BC, reg, mask and fins. Rented Sh!t is always beat to hell and uncomfortable, and I don't trust it.

 

[Guam360]

airlines that carry hazmat can carry pressurized cylinders, what does a "K" Oxygen bottle have that a SCUBA tank have?

answer: threads around the neck.

they can screw on a cap, this is a DOT thing, transport pressurized cylinders.

empty tank does not affect it, any dive shop will not fill a tank if it has been empty. so that shop needs to inspect the tank for deteriation, before they will pressurize it, avoiding a rupture and injury. so if the clown wants to take them empty and valveless and expects to pay for a visual and pressurize them, then he is on something, and spoiled and shouldn't be in the water.

if he is diving soemwhere where he thinks this all may ahppen, then he should just rent, most times, tanks are included in that day of diving,

blah, blah

 

[e12pilot]

empty tank does not affect it, any dive shop will not fill a tank if it has been empty.

Well, I guess that all depends on the dive shop. I have been in plenty that would have never thought twice when the whip wouldn't mate up with the oring...just would have squeezed it on the get the thing to seal up.....But then again sometimes people arn't exactly the brightest spark in the bunch.

P

 

[sky37d]

SCBA Self Contained Breathing Apparatus

SCUBA Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus

Big difference. SCBA's are certified, inspected, and used inside of fires, where ambient temp is substantial. The company I work for sells them and certifies them. Pressure can be up to 4400 PSI.

SCUBA is different, different regs, different tanks, and lower pressures. You should have no problem with SCBA, but could have problem with SCUBA. Empty the tanks, relieve the pressure, won't affect an SCBA tank. Don't empty it completely. Modern tanks are made of carbon fiber, or aluminum.

 

[HMR]

HMR why are you quiting SCUBA?Or do you just rent?

I'm not quitting, I just don't do it much anymore. I used to live 1/2 block from the beach, now I'm 5 blocks away. I figure that's ten times farther that I have to travel to go diving

 

[avbug]

Most SCBA tanks today are kevlar, wound lightweight glass tanks. However, the same regulations apply to carriage on board aircraft when pressurized, weather SCBA or SCUBA.

For SCBA, run it down until the bell rings; no need to completely empty it. Removal of the end fittings poses cracking hazards in the event one overtorques the fittings into the tank. These shouldn't merely be put on and arbitrarily pulled off; these are torqued fittings with a specific, dedicated value; some may require lubricated torque values (lubetorq), othes dry. Some may use one form of sealant,while others may not permit it. The inability to obtain the proper sealant and torque materials at the destination should preclude wanting to remove the valve and regulator assembly. Better off to rent.

Additionally, emptying the tank doesn't require a hydrostatic or burst test again, but it does require purging, normally with nitrogen.

SCBA tanks should have dedicated carrying cases with protective assemblies for any travel work.

The risk in carriage is not bursting but the potential for any pressurized cylinder to become a missle in the event damage occurs to the valve or regulator assembly.

 

[Diesel]

That's my favorite part of my job somtimes. Our company won't let us carry the tanks without making sure they are empty.

So when you say are the tanks empty? And they so yup. You just go ahead and open up that valve and the pax freak.

They know when you have the tanks open and leave them open they have to have the tanks checked again before refilling.

 

[slowto250]

I have been told by our POI, that tanks must be run down to @ 40 psi prior to transport. Avbug has indicated that a low pressure bell sounds at a predetermined value. I'm not sure how many tanks have this feature, but assume that it is set to go off in the very low psi ranges. Maybe somewhere in the 40 lb. vicinity ??

 

[FracCapt]

empty tank does not affect it, any dive shop will not fill a tank if it has been empty. so that shop needs to inspect the tank for deteriation, before they will pressurize it, avoiding a rupture and injury. so if the clown wants to take them empty and valveless and expects to pay for a visual and pressurize them, then he is on something, and spoiled and shouldn't be in the water.

What, exactly, do you propose they do to "inspect the tank for deterioration"? Umm....maybe a VIP(visual)? Do you expect a shop to do a hydro on a cylinder that comes in without a valve? Not if the hydro isn't due or the cylinder looks like it's been damaged.

If I take any of my cylinders to a shop without a valve in it, and they insist on anything OTHER THAN a VIP(assuming the inside of the cylinder is clean and free of rust), I'll take my business elsewhere. Then again, I guess it doesn't matter much.....since I do my own(and am qualified to do so) VIPs.

 

[psysicx]

HMR the big question how can you afford a house that close to a beach on pilot salary?

 

[FracCapt]

I have been told by our POI, that tanks must be run down to @ 40 psi prior to transport. Avbug has indicated that a low pressure bell sounds at a predetermined value. I'm not sure how many tanks have this feature, but assume that it is set to go off in the very low psi ranges. Maybe somewhere in the 40 lb. vicinity ??

I'm not at all familiar with SCBA cylinders...but with SCUBA cylinders, there will be no bell or any other warning that the cylinder is nearly(or completely) empty. I think your POI is wrong....according to the TSA(and, if I recall correctly, the FAA) cylinders must be EMPTY with valves removed to carry. I don't know if this applies to SCBA cylinders or just SCUBA cylinders.

Just for reference - SCBA cylinders are generally strictly for firefighting, whereas SCUBA cylinders are not approved for such applications. SCBA cylinders are often made of MUCH STRONGER material than SCUBA cylinders, such as carbon fiber and kevlar. The problem with those materials is that they are not very resistant to scatches/dents in the cylinder. Steel and aluminum are much more resistant. SCBA cylinders normally operate at much higher pressures than SCUBA cylinders, as well.