Cargo Startups ???

[bafanguy]

I tried this on another forum and got nowhere. I'll give it a go here and see what happens:

Anyone hear about a new 747 cargo startup called Compass Air Transport ? Maybe some ex-Delta guys involved ?

AND...how about another one in Pease, NH, using ( of all things ) C-17's. Someone on pprune claims to have talked to someone involved in this one, but didn't provide any details.

Thought you cargo guys might have heard something....Thx.

 

[Kikuchiyo]

While I would love to see someone start flying the C-17 commercially, I'm not holding my breath. Last I heard (during tour of C-17 factory at Long Beach) was that certification was being held up by State Dept due to concerns over selling a weapon system. Boeing has proposed removing the air refueling system and re-rigging the doors so they can't be opened in flight. Apparently this hasn't been enough to quell DoS' fears of the possibility of an adversary buying them and using them against us or against an ally.

On a similar note, if they ever do get cert'ed, I'd expect them to be flown by a small, specialized company. They're slow and not very efficient. They do one thing great, though, and that's land a large load on a very small runway. FedEx, etc probably won't need that kind of capability, and probably wouldn't be able to keep them gainfully employed enough to be cost effective. But there will be a demand for humanitarian supplies, special loads, etc, that could keep a small, on-demand operator in business, or third-tier carriers (Polar, etc) might buy a couple to supplement their fleet. I can only hope...

 

[Airpiraterob]

its a rather fat and pudgy airplane. its great for landing in short crap airstrips and taking off of them as well. it can take alot of bulky crap inside at that.

those are the pros.

the cons are this. (as told to me by a c17 pilot)
1) load it up and it can't go across an ocean on one tank.
2) it has 4....FOUR engines from a 757. this is why it climbs so well and gets out of tight spots and stops on a dime....it also needs them to push its fat pudgy a$$ self through the air. its not very aerodynamic in cruise.
3) the sucker is 400,000+ pounds wherever it goes. going into those tight small runways will crumple them. short runways werent designed for planes to weight that much. even seen an airplane physically crush the pavement its on before your eyes? its kinda neet but then when you realize whats happening...it aint! heck it just cracked the short runway in charleston, and the big runway was already closed...we sat in philly for 3 hours waiting for them to open it up so we could finish our day....(maximum duty time too.)

i personally think a 747 cargo plane would be more efficient and cost effective.

 

[Kikuchiyo]

Not that I disagree with airpiratebob's overall assessment that a 747 would be better than a C-17 for normal cargo runs, (I think I said as much in my earlier post, but wasn't specific). However, I gotta counter a couple points:

"1) load it up and it can't go across an ocean on one tank."
Not true. Widely disseminated rumor from when the jet was new. There's now an extended range version, which has 33% more fuel capacity. Anyhow (to quote my former Commander-in-Chief) "it depends on what your definition of is is." Or in this case "an ocean." Atlantic Eastbound (towards the war) no problem. Especially from our next C-17 base, McGuire AFB, NJ. Pacific Westbound, no, not likely. But that's the limitation we accepted when we bought it with other capabilities.

"its not very aerodynamic in cruise." True. Mach .76 at about 15K lbs per hour.

(I won't quote the whole #3) Details on the Charleston incident please. NOTAMS don't show the short runway being "cracked," but I'm out of town and have been for a couple months. CHS's 15/33 was closed about 12 years ago, also. I was under the impression this closure is for the same type of periodic mx as then. Don't get me wrong, though, a big fat jet sinking into the tarmac is pretty ugly - seen it. And you're right that most short strips aren't stressed for us, but a one-time flight of specialty cargo into an almost-stressed-enough runway is do-able, especially if there's somewhere you can get to afterwards for fuel once you've downloaded. We can just AR on the outbound, but Boeing will probably have to pull the AR capability from the commercial variant.

Overall, yes, a 747 would be more efficient and cost-effective. But if someone's looking to buy C-17's it's for specialty work (like the Guppy), not for efficiency.

 

[9drvr]

Info on cargo startups ??????

Gentlemen......hello.

I to saw the writeup on Pruune and made a few phone calls to my FAA friends; here is what I have. I am out of work, trying to get back to work; hence my effort.

Talked to a very high up official at the Boston FAA, and they knew nothing about any cargo startup in the country, or there area. Was directed to the LAX FAA office (C-17 is in Long Beach), where I talked at length with another FAA higherup........they also knew nothing about any new cargo startup, in there area or anywhere.

Was then directed to the DOT in D.C. and talked to an official, and they also knew nothing about a new cargo startup anywhere in the country...........however, that office handles all "economic authority" issues before certification of the airline.

This office clears all airline startups and then sends all the approved paperwork to the FAA, which then begins the cretification process; flight manuals, maintenance manuals, training, proving runs. etc.

The only thing I was told of any significance was that Polar/Atlas will soon be turning in a rather large number of aircraft back to the lessors.

I was also told that the old Emery Worldwide Airlines
cargo certificate was up for sale. However, who would want to buy it with all the FAA/NTSB/FBI/DOT/ SEC stockholder lawsuits and criminal investigations and lawsuits over there grounding and crash in Sacramento.

Like a house with lead pipes and asbestos insulation.........too much liability.

I do not see those aircraft sitting in the desert collecting dust; someone will buy someone's operation authority and put them to work. The paper trail has not yet started.

That's it. Best wishes to everyone in this slooooooowly improving economy.


9drvr.

 

[bafanguy]

9drvr,

Thanks for doing the legwork and passing it on. It must be good to know people in high places. I once met a guy who empties FSDO trash cans, but even he didn't want to talk to me.

 

[Airpiraterob]

well thers 2 runways being used in charleston. the long one is being repaired and the shorter one was being used that day for the C17 operations. i saw theyre operations in progress when i was there earlier that day. then once into philly to turn around and go back to CHS, we got stopped. the report of why we were ground stopped was that a military jet damaged the runway. there you go.....and it was the only operating runway. who knows. id hate to accidentally bounce one of those planes doing a short field landing....the force.

yeah ive seen interesting uses of cargo craft in civy use. got good pics of the airbus beluga up close in buffalo when i twas hauling a telescope down to Texas.

and Linden air cargo (alaska) uses the C-130's in its civy cargo ops. and they have interesting and supposedly very private contracts with the government and also go into russia often. reportedly they've been seen at places that dont exist on maps anywhere.

theres a startup beginning down in tampa with a former FAA guy. not sure if its still being worked on or is actually operating now. its Strong-Arn air cargo. (company logo has a watch on a muscular arm) the guy is trying to get the mail contracts and i think going to use metros at first.

any news on that one?

 

[jobear]

I found on strong arm is this link:http://www.pilotinterviews.com/JobListDetail.asp?JobID=575

Talked on phone to the guy he said it was a government contract working with USCG and delivering mail in SANDY places.Wanted typed pilots for the Metro.

Luck all
Jobear

 

[porra]

Who knows, maybe one day Southern Air Transport will start up ops again!!! Oh what a job...

 

[Stapled]

Southern Air Transport Restart?

I'm heading for Norwalk, CT in the morning to interview with Southern Air. They acquired the assets (ops certificate?) of the old Southern Air Transport according to their website and currently operate 3, GE powered 747-200's. DO says they're looking for 20 more guys. I'll know more after tomorrow.

www.southernair.com

 

[ejm179]

Stapled, Can you check your PM. Thanks.