Career Strategizing...

[Goose Egg]

Hey folks,

Got a couple career questions for y'all. Here's my background: I am a CFI, a good chunk of time below 1000 hours, and I have a BS degree in Aviation. As far as career goals go, I think that if I could find a good corporate job that'd be just super (to be honest, I have little more than passing interest in the airlines--the equipment is cool, but the job just seems like it sucks. Sorry.) Anyway, with that in mind, here's the question:

If given the opportunity to get an MBA or a second BS in Management Info. Systems, which would be more beneficial to the career? (Lucky me, both of these are offered for free as part of my benefit package--it pays to work full time at a private academic institution!)

Thanks in advance for all the help. I'm sure there'll be no shortage of opinions on the subject.

-Goose

 

[Resume Writer]

I would not suggest getting a degree in Management Information Systems. Not exactly a stellar industry right now. In fact, it was dubbed as an "affected industry" by the Department of Economic Security, as was aviation, for people to get retraining by the Workforce Investment Act.

If you want something useful to you in or out of aviation, might I suggest a degree in Accounting or Engineering. (not aeronautical engineering) At least with an accounting degree, if the corporate aviation department fell apart, you would have a skillset to work within that company. Further, if you made Chief Pilot, you would have the knowledge to talk with the bean counters to justify WHY you would need a corporate aircraft!

Just my two cents...

Kathy

 

[Goose Egg]

Thanks Kathy,

Accounting could be an option, but I can't get that one for free (or at this school). We have engineering, but it isn't available in a night school option. And even if it were, it would be virtually inaccessable due to my ineptitude with anything more technical than basic calculus.

I've got two options. I take it that the MBA is the better one?

-Goose

P.S. Kasey Khane rocks!

 

[Resume Writer]

Thanks Kathy,

Accounting could be an option, but I can't get that one for free (or at this school). We have engineering, but it isn't available in a night school option. And even if it were, it would be virtually inaccessable due to my ineptitude with anything more technical than basic calculus.

I've got two options. I take it that the MBA is the better one?

-Goose

P.S. Kasey Khane rocks!

Go after the MBA. Is there a specific concentration for the MBA? Maybe that is where you could possibly get the Accounting. You might have to get a few classes under you belt at your own cost though.

Kathy

P.S. Yes, Kasey Kahne does rock!!

 

[Goose Egg]

Go after the MBA. Is there a specific concentration for the MBA? Maybe that is where you could possibly get the Accounting. You might have to get a few classes under you belt at your own cost though.

Nope, no concentrations. Just an MBA. There are some accounting classes in the program, though. (Cost accounting--the financial accounting stuff isn't relevant, but is extremely dull and uninspiring, and I speak from experience.)

Naw, I don't have much interest in accounting, no matter how marketable it may make me. If my prime interest was job security, I woudn't even be bothering with flying in the first place! If, for example, the flight department of the company fell apart, I'd go to another corporation to fly (thanks for the type rating, by the way,) not be assimilated into normalcy as a bean counter. I am a pilot, and intend to remain so.

Beside, don't most people end up doing something other than their major course of study anyway?

-Goose

 

[lymanm]

"Beside, don't most people end up doing something other than their major course of study anyway?"

I'd say that's pretty accurate when referring to an undergrad, but when you do a Master's (MBA in this case), it's generally more directly applicable towards a career or at the very least, job skill sets.

Some people may do an undergrad in under water basket weaving, but few would actually do a Master's on the subject (unless you wanted to become a professor, teaching that subject!)

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

If you want to go the corporate route, its all about who you know. The degree you have is good enough that says you care about your success and I personally do not belive that a masters degree is going to make you a better canidate then someone else in the corporate industry. You want to be successful get the 1200 and try and go 135 with some smaller venue to get lots of cross country and instrument experience. Corporate is networking, talk to people, introduce yourself, and kiss a little @ss. You have to be in the right place at the right time to get on a lear or something with a 91 operator. If your considering a options/netjet's type job, then your going to need alot more time.

If you are under 1000hours your going to need a lot more. Don't waste your time on a masters, fixate on a 135 operator and get alot of tt doing that.

 

[sluminginpit]

Continue to work toward education that will provide you the greatest chance out of aviation.

I have spent many nights feeling completely hopeless due to my lack of experiance outside the indusrty, while working for a bankrupt company.

Learn from history, pilots are basiclly like Texas Hold'em, your all in! Once you achive emloyment, as you know your salary is based on senority. Lots of pilots have lost everything with no chance of even coming close to regain a fraction of thier previous salary.

The airlines are tough, and definitley not for everyone. Build your personnel foundation around what you truly want to do, as well as position yourself to weather the storm if you do decide to go for the airlines.

Knowlodge is power, and you can never have enough of either!

 

[mayday1]

Depends... you say your career goal is to fly corporate.. as others have mentioned, an advanced degree probably will have marginal value. However, at the same time, I'd say you're crazy to not take advantage of a tuition free MBA. People typically pay anywhere from 30-100k for these. And it's something you'll always have, and never regret. If you can swing it, try getting the degree along with continuing to fly.

 

[FN FAL]

Depends... you say your career goal is to fly corporate.. as others have mentioned, an advanced degree probably will have marginal value. However, at the same time, I'd say you're crazy to not take advantage of a tuition free MBA. People typically pay anywhere from 30-100k for these. And it's something you'll always have, and never regret. If you can swing it, try getting the degree along with continuing to fly.

That does sound like a winner.

 

[JAFI]

Education is a wonderful thing, But if you spend all the time, effort, money, etc. to train to be a brain surgeon and don't like blood, you have to ask your self why did I bother to go to medical school. Before you jump to the MBA route find out what you would like to do outside of aviation.

Corporate aviation can be as bankrupt as the airlines. Sometimes you don't even see it comming. I knew a pilot who was transfered to Europe with his company. They moved him and his family over there and all was well for 6 months. He walked in to the office one day and was told they sold the aircraft last night, your services are no longer needed, find your own way home. No moving expenses or severance pay, just good bye. Another friend had a great job until the old man who owned the company died. The son, new owner, sold the aircraft and bought himself a big house.

Good Luck

JAFI

 

[Goose Egg]

Thanks for all the replies. Very interesting. (I'll weigh in--on my own future no less--after a few more replies... if any.)

-Goose

 

[TonyC]

Hmmm... but I thought ...

Knowlodge is power, and you can never have enough of either!

All this time I thought it was knowledge . . .


. . . tells ya how much I know!

 

[bobbysamd]

Further degrees

If given the opportunity to get an MBA or a second BS in Management Info. Systems, which would be more beneficial to the career?

You really do not need another degree for aviation. You punched your ticket when you earned your B.S. in Aviation.

If you are thinking in terms of a Plan B if aviation does not work out, I would opt for the MBA, especially if it is free. Take as much accounting as possible. I agree that Cost is boring, and hard.

Good luck with whichever degree you pursue.

 

[Goose Egg]

Well, folks, this is what I think:

Information Technology: Actually did some checking around on this one, and it seems like the Bureau of Labor Statistics didn't quite agree with the claim that this was a bad area to major in. It's a moot point for me, in any case; an additional BS degree would basically be a waste of my time no matter how little the cost.

Accounting: Just get that notion out of your heads right now. There's reason why they are so in demand: Their job sucks. If I had to face 20+ years of doing that, I think I'd walk into a turning prop. I can think of dozens of lesser-paying jobs that I'd be happier working in.

MBA: That's what I'm going to shoot for. Tuition is paid. If they let me in, great. If not, then I'll just take what I got "into the air." I'll try to manage my finances so that any immediate loss of the capacity to work as a pilot (lost medical, for example) does not result in the immediate need to find another job. And I'll figure something out then.

In other words, I'll try to put something away for a rainy day no matter what degrees I have (as rainy days inevitably come.) (It's all about not increasing standard of living with pay increases. If you asked me, increasing standards of living are all marginal anyway--cool stuff doesn't make up for an otherwise crappy life.)

Besides, this flyin' thing was never about "makin' bank" anyway.

-Goose

 

[bobbysamd]

Accounting

Accounting: Just get that notion out of your heads right now. There's reason why they are so in demand: Their job sucks. If I had to face 20+ years of doing that, I think I'd walk into a turning prop. I can think of dozens of lesser-paying jobs that I'd be happier working in.

I agree. My B.S.B.A. is in Accounting. On exams, one wrong figure could throw off the entire worksheet, with my professor counting off points therefor. Thus, the work indeed grinds at you.

I decided early in college that I wanted to go into broadcasting, but (barely) stuck out the program because I thought it would help me one day. It did - I did my own taxes for many years and it helped me balance my logbook. I never really used it fully until I got into legal work nearly ten years ago. There, I encountered quite a bit of work that required accounting skills.

Accounting is tough and extremely detailed-oriented, stressful work. But, it's a good marketable skill. The background cannot hurt, and, it does pay.

Good luck with your MBA.

 

[Flic1]

I have 3 friends in the financial field who all went and got MBA's and are all stuck in the same job with still little prospect of moving on in their fields. These are all sharp peoeple too, but MBA's are a dime a dozen these days thanks to all of the "University of Online" programs now. I wouldn't count on an MBA being a ticket to a cushy job if aviation doesn't work out since employers want on-the-job experience more than the degree....unless it's a degree from Stanford. If you're getting it to be competitive for a flying job, I wouldn't waste the time and effort on it.

 

[JimBo480]

I agree with the crowd saying your current degree is good enough for a career in aviation. If you get another degree, branch out and get something you can fall back on during aviations downturns.

I'm currently furloughed from NWA and am working as a manufacturing engineer (falling back on a 20 year old degree in mechanical engineering). It's taken a lot of work and a great deal of luck, but it sure is nice to finally feel like I can make a decent living outside of aviation. It was pretty depressing to be furloughed, looking for a job and not even the local FBO would talk to you unless you were willing to resign your seniority number.

My point is never put all your eggs in one basket. I would have never been in a position to land this job with an aviation degree. Of course I'll throw this all away in a four or five months (hopefully) and take my recall when it's offered, so take this with a grain of salt.

Jim, furloughed 03/02/2002

 

[Resume Writer]

Well, folks, this is what I think:

Information Technology: Actually did some checking around on this one, and it seems like the Bureau of Labor Statistics didn't quite agree with the claim that this was a bad area to major in. It's a moot point for me, in any case; an additional BS degree would basically be a waste of my time no matter how little the cost.

Goose,

Let me tell you, the Department of Labor statistics are WAY skewed! I believe their last census was done in the year 2000. (take a look at their date on the page) I work with people EVERY day who are out of work in IT. They are working for half of what they were working for 5 years ago. Most of them now are hired as "consultants" with firms such as Deloitte. There are no benefits that come with those jobs, so they are on their own for health care, etc.

While I take into consideration the "statistics" of the government, I can tell you that MANY Information Tech people were eligible for Workforce Investment Act funds for retraining, as they were in what is called an "affected industry." What this means is that the likelihood of them getting another job in that profession was dismal and the government paid to retrain them. It is the same thing that happened to many pilots on this board that were furloughed.

I would go for the MBA if it is free. It truly is not going to help you without experience in the position you might be applying for in the future. So, during your career, you can try to do other duties in conjunction with your job, so you can put that down in the event of you losing your job.

Kathy

 

[Goose Egg]

...but MBA's are a dime a dozen these days thanks to all the "University of Online" programs now. I wouldn't count on an MBA being a ticket to a cushy job if aviation doesn't work out since employers want on-the-job experience more than the degree...

This is a concern of mine, and I'm actually a little surprised that this didn't come up sooner in the thread--if you hang around accountants enough (my father being one), you are bound to hear something like this. Anyone want to comment?

It truly is not going to help you without experience in the position you might be applying for in the future. So, during your career, you can try to do other duties in conjunction with your job, so you can put that down in the event of you losing your job.

I guess I'm just going with the "any masters is a good masters" theory--especially because I'm not going to be paying for it. But you guys are saying that it won't help my marketability in the non-aviation world that much? Should I even bother with it at all?

-Goose

P.S. Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[bobbysamd]

Mba

I guess I'm just going with the "any masters is a good masters" theory--especially because I'm not going to be paying for it. But you guys are saying that it won't help my marketability in the non-aviation world that much? Should I even bother with it at all?

Here again, all you need for aviation is a four-year degree. But, as long as it's free and you have the time and inclination, you should. If I were in your position, I would. There are a lot of doors an MBA can open.

 

[pilotyip]

Nursing, nurses are always in demand with decent paying jobs. You could even do a Nursing job while building your flying career. My sister works part time makes close to 40K per year. Works Weekend nights, holidays, and double and triple OT. And she does not have a degree, just an RN

 

[Resume Writer]

Nursing, nurses are always in demand with decent paying jobs. You could even do a Nursing job while building your flying career. My sister works part time makes close to 40K per year. Works Weekend nights, holidays, and double and triple OT. And she does not have a degree, just an RN

Yip,

When did your sister get her RN?

Kathy

 

[Goose Egg]

Nursing, nurses are always in demand with decent paying jobs. You could even do a Nursing job while building your flying career. My sister works part time makes close to 40K per year. Works Weekend nights, holidays, and double and triple OT. And she does not have a degree, just an RN

Wow, 40K, and weekends, nights, holidays, and double/triple OT. Not to mention sticking, wiping, turning, and cleaning people. Why didn't I think of that sooner?

-Goose

 

[sluminginpit]

Typing to fast, oops! guess i'll have to make up for it with power

 

[Resume Writer]

I guess I'm just going with the "any masters is a good masters" theory--especially because I'm not going to be paying for it. But you guys are saying that it won't help my marketability in the non-aviation world that much? Should I even bother with it at all?

Goose,

What I was saying in my last post was to take on additional responsibilities in the aviation company. If possible, assist with the process of purchasing an airplane. That way you know the process and can put that information on your resume. (not stating you are an expert in it, just assisted in it) If you intend to fly corporate, see what you can do about getting some experience with the purchase of passenger ammenities or catering. Then you can put that on your resume.

What I am looking at are transferable skills. The attitude may be that you are getting paid to fly an airplane. While that is true, if you choose to do what I suggest, then you will be more well-rounded in the case of a corporate department shutdown and be able to bounce back quicker.

Trust me, the hardest resumes to write are the "transition" resumes. My job is to figure out what is in your background that matches to a position outside of aviation. Then present that in a way that puts you in the best light.

I do transition resumes all the time for people in and out of aviation. But someone has to be realistic in what they want to do. I cannot transfer someone from janitor to CEO!

But I have, for instance, transferred teachers to sales. I am speaking with a woman tomorrow who is transferring from an Executive Director of a Non-Profit to Sales. The key is identifying her skills that transfer, which will be no problem, because I understand what happens in each industry from writing resumes for so many years.

As for the MBA, if it is free, take it! It will not hurt you.

Kathy

 

[pilotyip]

1971

She got in 1971 through a hospital program, not bad for working about 2-3 days per week and 800-900 hours per year.

 

[Goose Egg]

If possible, assist with the process of purchasing an airplane. That way you know the process and can put that information on your resume. (not stating you are an expert in it, just assisted in it) If you intend to fly corporate, see what you can do about getting some experience with the purchase of passenger ammenities or catering. Then you can put that on your resume.

Thanks for all your advice, Kathy. That sounds like a great plan.

I was actually checkin' out that other thread about jobs that don't require a specific degree. I think I'll comment on it there.

-Goose

 

[Resume Writer]

Thanks for all your advice, Kathy. That sounds like a great plan.

I was actually checkin' out that other thread about jobs that don't require a specific degree. I think I'll comment on it there.

-Goose

Your welcome! Part of my job as a resume writer and career coach is helping people find what is in their background that they might think is not important, but might be, depending upon the situation.

Kathy

 

[lawfly]

Career Strategy

Do both if you want both: the degree and flying.